So, 9.7" screen, built in Wi-Fi, internet browser, media player, a much more impressive gaming device than the iTouch or Iphone, IWork applications for spreadsheets, word processing, ect., $499 base price point for 16GB, optional 3G, flat rate data plan of $30/month or $15 for 250MB per month, an e-book reader with contracts signed with all the major publishing houses, a new iBook store. The online experience with this willbe so vastly superior to the iPhone or Touch ajnd that initial price point is Apple's efforts to put this into as many hands as possibel. I think it's a homerun.
I am not sold yet - although I want to love it. (I have an iPhone which I love).
For me, a netbook is a more logical choice - I want a keyboard I can use - with video & connectivity. This iPad looks cool, but the price is too high (once you ad a decent sized drive..and 3G....and WiFi...).
No way I am going to pay $30 for data on top of my iPhone (can you say tether?) - and then pay each content provider a fee on top of that.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on January 27, 2010, 12:10:26 PM
I am not sold yet - although I want to love it. (I have an iPhone which I love).
For me, a netbook is a more logical choice - I want a keyboard I can use - with video & connectivity. This iPad looks cool, but the price is too high (once you ad a decent sized drive..and 3G....and WiFi...).
No way I am going to pay $30 for data on top of my iPhone (can you say tether?) - and then pay each content provider a fee on top of that.
It will be interesting to see if AT&T offers discounted packages to current iPhone users. It does have a virtual keyboard which still allows for a large screen environment above it. And at $699 for the top 3G model, how is that too much vs. a laptop? And just wait, that AT&T exclusivity will likely be gone by mid year.
I love it.. I don't have an iphone or an itouch ipod. I do have a netbook and love it and was thinking of getting a kindle (book reader) but now that this has come out I'm going to get the iPad. Soon enough comic book companies will be putting their books up in the ibook store and that makes me very happy. This reminds me of a Star Trek TNG PADD and that is AWESOME. Can't wait to see them up close.
Me too, Kenny. I really never "Needed" an iPhone, my cheap Verizon phone it just fine. I really like the iPod touch for Wi-Fi browsing and games, but the screen was too small. This is perfect for what I would want out of a portable experience. I certainly don't need all the processing power or memory of a laptop.
I guess the issue here is that an iPhone fits in your pocket, not sure if carrying around a 10" thing saves me much from carrying a netbook or full on laptop. It's cool, but I feel like this is really a niche product.
Joe, consider it a combination netbook and Kindle with a much better visual; experience. Very much not niche, look at Kindle sales for Amazon, now add internet, gaming, business applications, ect. That's big, very big.
I see where you're coming from. I guess I'm interested in seeing if the form factor actually appeals to people.
Apple makes good products no doubt but to me they are like designer clothes...too flashy and way overpriced. They seem to really want to push this device for ereading but I'm going to say right now that any backlit device will be no good for long book reading. It will give you headaches and eye fatigue. There is no way around that. It's the very reason why Sony adopted and developed the eink screen and the Kindle and Nook and many other ereaders have followed suit. Undoubtedly the Ipad is flashy, colorful and beautiful to look at. It certainly caters to the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh but it does not mean it will make a good reading device. Now as far as movies and video games I think it would be ideal but most people that like these kind of things already have devices that can do those very things. I have to agree with Billybob on this one...it is a niche device and I think sales will be slower than Apple is expecting.
Kevin
Any pictures of this goodie yet? Sounds intriguing.
Quote from: Rico on January 27, 2010, 03:02:18 PM
Any pictures of this goodie yet? Sounds intriguing.
You can go here for a blog about it.. lots of pictures
http://live.gdgt.com (http://live.gdgt.com)
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on January 27, 2010, 03:05:46 PM
Quote from: Rico on January 27, 2010, 03:02:18 PM
Any pictures of this goodie yet? Sounds intriguing.
You can go here for a blog about it.. lots of pictures
http://live.gdgt.com (http://live.gdgt.com)
Cool. Oh, I like this picture of it!
Yeah they played Star Trek during the presentation.
Quote from: Ktrek on January 27, 2010, 12:55:36 PM
Apple makes good products no doubt but to me they are like designer clothes...too flashy and way overpriced. They seem to really want to push this device for ereading but I'm going to say right now that any backlit device will be no good for long book reading. It will give you headaches and eye fatigue. There is no way around that. It's the very reason why Sony adopted and developed the eink screen and the Kindle and Nook and many other ereaders have followed suit. Undoubtedly the Ipad is flashy, colorful and beautiful to look at. It certainly caters to the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh but it does not mean it will make a good reading device. Now as far as movies and video games I think it would be ideal but most people that like these kind of things already have devices that can do those very things. I have to agree with Billybob on this one...it is a niche device and I think sales will be slower than Apple is expecting.
Kevin
Well, that's what everyone said about the iPod, which went on to be the biggest selling portable music player. That's also what everyone said about the iPhone which has gone on to be one the biggest smart phone seller. So now Apple has a netbook/e-reader portable device...anyone want to bet against them? I make my living anticipating future sales and earnings for companies. Apple will sell these like they are going out of style. Why? Because Apple makes products that WORK. They are easy to use, intuitive. People pay up for the Apple experience. This will be no different. And the price points on this are VERY compelling. I was anticipating around $1000 for the base model and they came in at $499. Amazing bit of marketing.
Hmmm, yeah, the Kindle looks great next to the iPad! Not!
I am so excited about this. I absolutely LOVE my Ipod Touch, or as Tim would say, Ithingy. The only complaint that I have had is that it isn't big enough. So the Ipad answers that. Oh, I must start saving my moola. I want this baby. VERY COOL!
As I watched Steve present that Ipad I started to drool. :)
SO for now, Idrool.
(http://www.iphonesavior.com/images/2008/05/14/ipad_touch_mock_up.jpg)
I've been busy and haven't looked at all the specs and stuff, but can you just use this thing around your house and link into your WiFi? I just wouldn't want another monthly bill, but I'd love to have it to surf the web, watch video, read stuff, etc. while at my house.
I've just gone and died in heaven. I'm drooling over here, and it hurts. I WANTS!! PRECIOUS WANTS IPAD. PRECIOUS KILL FOR IPAD!!
lols
That looks really neat. Too bad I can't even afford the iPod touch. Oh wallet, why must you be so cruel.
King
It is wifi ready Rico, if you want the 3G you have to contract with AT&T for $30 a month.
Quote from: moyer777 on January 27, 2010, 04:45:04 PM
It is wifi ready Rico, if you want the 3G you have to contract with AT&T for $30 a month.
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. So it can operate pretty much like a bigger iPod touch.
Quote from: Rico on January 27, 2010, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: moyer777 on January 27, 2010, 04:45:04 PM
It is wifi ready Rico, if you want the 3G you have to contract with AT&T for $30 a month.
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. So it can operate pretty much like a bigger iPod touch.
Or $15/month for 250 MB.
I didn't get the feeling that it was a must have product for me like the iMac, iPod Classic, or iPhone.
I'd have to put this one with the AppleTV and Macbook Air as a toy that I would play with, but I probably won't be adding it to my shopping list.
It's a good start but I'll be impressed when they make the browser a full featured browser with flash and all the plug-ins, and someone writes a really good word processer.
EDIT:
Never mind about the word processer. I typed that before seeing that iWork will be on the iPad.
I just thought of something watching this keynote... If the iPad is unlocked, do we really need that AT&T package? Just say if you put your iPhone sim or any other sim from a phone if you already subscribe to data?
I read on another site that the Ipad does not support multi-tasking. Now what the heck was Apple thinking? That's just plain screwy when almost everyone multi-tasks!
Kevin
my ipod touch is really not multi task eithe. But I still can switch between things easily. I can listen to music while checking email or playing a game, surfing the web etc. But I can't open up multiple windows.
Here's an interesting poll on MSNBC. Only 25% say it's a "must have" the others are mostly epic failure or meh. That may change when people can actually see and hold one in an Apple store but there is a lot of negativity by a lot of folks who had higher expectations from Apple. And I can't believe that there was nobody at Apple who could see the complaints about the name coming! I mean...these are supposedly some of the smartest people in the world. Were none of them married?
http://msnbc.newsvine.com/_question/2010/01/27/3817168-apple-ipad-must-have-or-epic-fail (http://msnbc.newsvine.com/_question/2010/01/27/3817168-apple-ipad-must-have-or-epic-fail)
Kevin
Well, it looks very nice but isn't something I'm going to be lusting after. Maybe I'd be a little more interested if I hadn't inherited Dad's netbook for Christmas but the primary reason for that was to get a second device with a keyboard in the house - a need an iPADD (sic) wouldn't answer for me.
I have a iPhone which is ultra portable and, to me, this is just a bigger version to the extent that it runs the same applications. OK, once bespoke software starts to appear for it then I think we'll see a bigger difference between the two platforms emerge but that's going to take some time. Even then, it's still too close to the iPhone. I don't need/want both.
Having said all that, if I didn't have the phone then I'd probably go for this so I think it will sell. I wouldn't want to guess at numbers but I'll be interested to see how much crossover with the iThingy market there is. Of course, if they've just created a new market, then we're probably looking at gold dust here.
...and remember, I said I'd never own an iPhone when they first came out.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on January 27, 2010, 12:10:26 PM
This iPad looks cool, but the price is too high (once you ad a decent sized drive..and 3G....and WiFi...).
WiFi is an 'out of the box' feature on all models so there's nothing to add for that unless you need to buy the infrastructure for home.
I cannot think why I would want to carry this around instead of a netbook or laptop. Like Brother Feathers - I couldn't live without my iPhone.
My initial thought is that the iPad will sell, but not have the massive impact that other Apple products have had on the market.
Well, let's see, just in our little discussion here, Rick, Kenny, and myself all want one. King thinks it's cool, my 20 year old brother called me last night and he likes it and he is a total tech head and a buddy who doesn't get into gadgets at all called me as well and he wants one. Doesn't sound very meh to me. Already this morning, research analysts are rasing estimates for Apple earnings and modeling for up to 5 million unit sales this year.
I'm really wondering how people already with iPhones and paying for those already will take to this. Seems like a duplication of many things for them. I think the product looks pretty neat and I'm tempted right now since I don't have an iPhone - plus Lynn has wanted some type of eBook reader. Maybe I'll get her one and surprise her (shush - don't tell). ;)
I want one. The size and color features are perfect for the type of reader I've always been looking for.
Quote from: Rico on January 28, 2010, 05:17:03 AM
I'm really wondering how people already with iPhones and paying for those already will take to this. Seems like a duplication of many things for them. I think the product looks pretty neat and I'm tempted right now since I don't have an iPhone - plus Lynn has wanted some type of eBook reader. Maybe I'll get her one and surprise her (shush - don't tell). ;)
An iPhone is a different market. It's a phone first and then a small media player, web browser, game platform. BUT those secondary features have a very limited experience. The screen is way too small to really have the kind of content experience people want. I never bought the iPod touch as the screen was too small to really surf the web and watch stuff in a format I wanted. Now the iPad removes the voice feature and purely provides a richer content platform.
Oh, and now we can add Chris to the :thumbsup crew. :)
Quote from: Bryancd on January 28, 2010, 05:04:58 AM
Well, let's see, just in our little discussion here, Rick, Kenny, and myself all want one. King thinks it's cool, my 20 year old brother called me last night and he likes it and he is a total tech head and a buddy who doesn't get into gadgets at all called me as well and he wants one. Doesn't sound very meh to me. Already this morning, research analysts are rasing estimates for Apple earnings and modeling for up to 5 million unit sales this year.
Yes, but we are all techy-geeky guys - I have been waiting to buy a netbook / mini for almost 8 months, and I have been holding out to see what Apple produced. At my office (all techhie guys) we watched breathlessly for the device to be introduced - and after our euphoria chilled - we started asking questions about the practicality.
Like I said, I think it will have a market, but I am thinking it will be more akin to the MacBook Air in sales - rather than other 'must have' items that Apple has produced.
MacBook Air never came close to 5 million units, it's price point was too high. And I am NOT a techie by any stretch of the imagination! It's the non-tech crowd that have not adopted to the smart phone model and for whom a laptop is overkill that will buy this. Again Look at e-rreader sales and net book sales, there's a market for these streamed down devices and the iPad cna do both at a competitive price point.
I like it, it looks good but I have a iPhone and I will buy a new laptop soon I don't see any need for ME to have something in between.
Oh and for the record I hate ebooks with a passion. ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on January 28, 2010, 06:08:14 AM
MacBook Air never came close to 5 million units, it's price point was too high. And I am NOT a techie by any stretch of the imagination! It's the non-tech crowd that have not adopted to the smart phone model and for whom a laptop is overkill that will buy this. Again Look at e-rreader sales and net book sales, there's a market for these streamed down devices and the iPad cna do both at a competitive price point.
:) by virtue of being a sci-fi geek, I make you an honorary Techie - arise sir Bryan, and be thou a gallant geek!
((Does Amazon disclose Kindle sales figures?))
Quote from: Bryancd on January 28, 2010, 05:31:57 AM
An iPhone is a different market.
Hey! I get to disagree with Bryan! ;)
I don't think they are a
completely different market and using the informal polling here, the iPhone crowd so far (me, Bromptonboy and Meds) have all said it's OK but doesn't fill a vacancy that we have at the minute.
As I said before, if I didn't already have the iPhone then I'd be falling on this like a rabid dog but having both? No.
Of course, I could sell the iPhone and get a PADD (drop the i!) but then I'd have portability issues.
Quote from: Feathers on January 28, 2010, 07:05:45 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on January 28, 2010, 05:31:57 AM
An iPhone is a different market.
Hey! I get to disagree with Bryan! ;)
I don't think they are a completely different market and using the informal polling here, the iPhone crowd so far (me, Bromptonboy and Meds) have all said it's OK but doesn't fill a vacancy that we have at the minute.
As I said before, if I didn't already have the iPhone then I'd be falling on this like a rabid dog but having both? No.
Of course, I could sell the iPhone and get a PADD (drop the i!) but then I'd have portability issues.
Me and the Brits....Oh my God...I think I have become a Tory!!
;)
Give this a fold around keyboard - and make it into a convertible net book \ tablet - I would be all over it.
I love the look of it and think it is so cool. It totally reminds me of the Star Trek Padd as well, so neat.
But I am torn. I know I would use it for the CBR/CBZ comic book reader. I have a huge digital comic collection and they would look awesomely amazing on that thing. Web browsing on the go with the Ipad looks gorgeous. Movies would look awesome too but I assume we'd still be stuck with the H264 format. Gaming would be cool as well but so far the Ipod/Iphone games havent exactly blown me away. Dragon's Lair and Space Ace would look fantastic on this device.
I can't think of what else I would really use it for though. It's also a drag that they make you pay extra for a USB port. That makes no sense at all. I have my Ipod touch for portable music so I doubt I would transfer any music to this device. The Ipad would be crippled if you use it without 3G, and that bumps up the cost as well as requiring ANOTHER monthly fee. I don't see myself using WiFi only because if I am home I could always just go to my computer.
I really do want one of these but I think the price is just too high. They are so mean using the new Star Trek movie in the keynote, it's like they are trying to TORTURE me into buying one of these! :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
Kindle business is in the range of 1 million units per year right now. When I say the iPad is a very different market than the phone has everything to do with the screen size. You just can't watch any content on an iPhone and have it be satisying. Viewing content, web browsing, media, movies, TV, are much better on the iPad. I mean, who sits around watching maovies on their iPhone and can say that's a great visual experience?
I've watched tons of content on my Ipod touch and been completely satisfied. That's not to say the Ipad wouldn't be a much better viewing experience with the larger screen, but there's alot to be said for pulling the Ipod out of your pocket and firing up a movie or TV show. I don't always want to carry my backpack around with me wherever I go.
I'm just going to wait until the price drops and they tweak it to make it even better and cooler. I predict about a year from launch this will be a great deal! I'm not early adopting again - certainly not from Apple. The iPod got better and cheaper, same with the iMac, iPhone, etc. I can wait.
Quote from: Rico on January 28, 2010, 09:53:04 AM
I'm just going to wait until the price drops and they tweak it to make it even better and cooler. I predict about a year from launch this will be a great deal! I'm not early adopting again - certainly not from Apple. The iPod got better and cheaper, same with the iMac, iPhone, etc. I can wait.
The way I see it, there are a few issue's to early adoption. No camera is a big one, it could use more ports to expand it's functionality, and some people are likely to wait and see if Apple opens up their wireless network to include Verizon.
I am not the biggest fan of macs but a Tablet PC would be great, but what is with the 1 ghz processor? I am not knowledgeable on apple tech but I am pretty sure that is even slow for a giant Iphone
Clock rates are no longer a very reliable measure of performance. Actually, to me, the A4 processor in the iPad is the real enws here. Apple bought a small CPU design firm (can't recall the name, Bryan?) and designed the CPU in-house.
THAT could very well be the game-changer here.
Edit: The company is PA Semiconductor.
Yeah, one of the engineers at work was saying the processor was the key to te deal here. I don't know that much about it but performance next to the iPhone is supposed to be a significant improvement.
As an aside, considering what we're working on at the minute, a ruggedised version of this thing would be just what the customer needs!
I got the email from Apple last night and went and read every bit of their push. I have to admit, I want one.
The Idrool with the keyboard and accesories. Yes, it's the XXL Itouch.
Wow - for just a few hundred more, I would get an ipad instead of Amazon Kindle. I get so much more with the iPad. The keyboard would take some getting used to. 10 hour battery life - wow!
I didn't get an email! I want an email from Apple!
With a keyboard I can see more of an attraction but I've already got a laptop and a netbook for that job.
If I were ever to get one, the main point would be the 3G connectivity. I'm addicted to the 'always on' nature of the iPhone and this would be that writ large for me.
I just want to walk around fooling around with a tablet PC like Mckay :)
Well, for me there are even more negatives about the Ipad. It seems that the Ipad is going to use a proprietary epub format which will close out anyone from buying ebooks from Apple's website and using it on other devices. It also does not support Flash and so that excludes a whole lot of web use that has Flash imbedded along with videos, games etc. This is a quote from Adobe:
QuoteIt looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.
This is pretty dissapointing news and shows how controlling Apple wants to be. There are other slate/tablet projects coming out soon that I think may not look as flashy as Ipad but will outperform it.
Here's the source:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/ (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/)
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on January 28, 2010, 01:10:25 PM
Well, for me there are even more negatives about the Ipad. It seems that the Ipad is going to use a proprietary epub format which will close out anyone from buying ebooks from Apple's website and using it on other devices. It also does not support Flash and so that excludes a whole lot of web use that has Flash imbedded along with videos, games etc. This is a quote from Adobe:
QuoteIt looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.
This is pretty dissapointing news and shows how controlling Apple wants to be. There are other slate/tablet projects coming out soon that I think may not look as flashy as Ipad but will outperform it.
And im off again lol, there goes the stargate computer mod...
Well, so much for the iPad I was going to get Kevin for his B-Day..... ;)
Apple will soldier on with out you, k-Trek! :)
Quote from: Ktrek on January 28, 2010, 01:10:25 PM
Well, for me there are even more negatives about the Ipad. It seems that the Ipad is going to use a proprietary epub format which will close out anyone from buying ebooks from Apple's website and using it on other devices. It also does not support Flash and so that excludes a whole lot of web use that has Flash imbedded along with videos, games etc. This is a quote from Adobe:
QuoteIt looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.
This is pretty dissapointing news and shows how controlling Apple wants to be. There are other slate/tablet projects coming out soon that I think may not look as flashy as Ipad but will outperform it.
Here's the source:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/ (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/)
Kevin
Funny enough thing is that Apple is starting to loosen that grip. Music you get is now playable on other computers more and on other MP3 players. Or so I heard a while ago. C/D?
King
If the Ipad (hate the name) gets its flash grip loosened then I will buy it.
Quote from: Darkmolerman on January 28, 2010, 03:27:35 PM
If the Ipad (hate the name) gets its flash grip loosened then I will buy it.
Isn't the issue with flash battery life?
Quote from: Bryancd on January 28, 2010, 03:29:53 PM
Quote from: Darkmolerman on January 28, 2010, 03:27:35 PM
If the Ipad (hate the name) gets its flash grip loosened then I will buy it.
Isn't the issue with flash battery life?
I just want to watch hulu and do the usual flash things you do online. I want to make the ipad (im calling it Itablet from now on) a stargate computer I am already making my desktop a Torchwood Computer
There is only one thing I'm really disappointed about Apple right now, and that's due to the fact that it seems like Apple has no intention of upgrading its out-of-date iPod Classic. While its an OK iPod, they could really make it a nice, heavy-duty Hardrive iPod with HD video.
But I guess that's how Technology goes. Which means I'll be switching to the iPod touch.
King
Quote from: Feathers on January 28, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
I didn't get an email! I want an email from Apple!
I forwarded mine to you. :)
Quote from: moyer777 on January 28, 2010, 03:37:01 PM
Quote from: Feathers on January 28, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
I didn't get an email! I want an email from Apple!
I forwarded mine to you. :)
I got the same email from them. :D
King
Quote from: moyer777 on January 28, 2010, 03:37:01 PM
Quote from: Feathers on January 28, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
I didn't get an email! I want an email from Apple!
I forwarded mine to you. :)
Anything special? Or is it just regular apple stuff, the kind I can find on the site
it's just a url for what you can find on the site. :) I must be on their mailing list.
Quote from: moyer777 on January 28, 2010, 03:44:40 PM
it's just a url for what you can find on the site. :) I must be on their mailing list.
iTunes account does that automatically I believe.
King
I was in love with the iPAD until I met something better www.entourageedge.com (http://www.entourageedge.com).
I'm buying one of these as soon as they drop.
Come on, Chris! That things lame!
Quote from: Just X on January 28, 2010, 03:50:20 PM
I was in love with the iPAD until I met something better www.entourageedge.com (http://www.entourageedge.com).
I'm buying one of these as soon as they drop.
Cool but I like Ipad more
You guys need to keep in mind Apple has a thriving laptop biz. The PowerBooks are some of the most awesome and expensive laptops out there and they sell A LOT at HUGE margins. iPad can cannibalize iTouch biz but they do not want to cut into their laptop sales. It's a fine line of function vs. price vs. margins. You have to put on your economics 10 caps to see where Apple is going with this. E-reader and netbook without hurting their own laptop sales.
This is CLASSIC! Here's what people said about the iPod when it was released. Sound familiar? LOL!! :roflmao
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500)
I'm concluding Bryan just wants to see his stock go up in price with his comments in this thread. ;)
You say lame, I say everything that I wanted in a ereader. I like that it has two screens and sd expansion. Granted, I do like the iPAD, but this fills the functions that I need more.
Quote from: Just X on January 28, 2010, 05:21:13 PM
You say lame, I say everything that I wanted in a ereader. I like that it has two screens and sd expansion. Granted, I do like the iPAD, but this fills the functions that I need more.
For sure, I'm just teasing. The iPad's ereader limitation is it's backlit screen, but I personally want more of a mobile internet device with great visual content, e-reader second.
See I want the Ipad to do well so others will "copy" it (I say copy cause they are first) I mean the upsides are GREAT but the downsides make this thing seem REALLY bad, no flash, makes your eyes hurt. I still might get it so I can watch movies on the plane
Oh my, this is great!!!
Mad Tv - IPad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs#)
Ewwww........
That is great! Thanks Bryan
I think it's derailed the thread though.
I have seen this clip used like this before. The subtitles are quite funny - although I am sure a translation from our Cosmonaut would be more accurate!
http://holykaw.alltop.com/hitler-responds-to-the-ipad-34? (http://holykaw.alltop.com/hitler-responds-to-the-ipad-34?)
((some profanity in the subtitles))
Quote from: Feathers on January 30, 2010, 12:50:06 AM
I think it's derailed the thread though.
That's being nice...
Video did remind me why I don't like Mad TV. Now, back to the real topic at hand. (Although I did lol at the video)
King
Quote from: Bromptonboy on January 30, 2010, 03:41:15 AM
I have seen this clip used like this before. The subtitles are quite funny - although I am sure a translation from our Cosmonaut would be more accurate!
http://holykaw.alltop.com/hitler-responds-to-the-ipad-34? (http://holykaw.alltop.com/hitler-responds-to-the-ipad-34?)
It's hard to focus on the subtitles, but if you wonder what's happening, it's this:
The red spot on the map is Berlin and the blue line right next to it is the red army. Hitler is
slightly upset his imaginary troops aren't attacking as he ordered and blames the guys standing around him, calling them liars. In the end he states he'll rather shoot himself than leaving Berlin.
Did I mention the very realistic film was
a bit depressing and with 156 min a pain to sit through? (Don't think I have to tell you how it ends...)
The far shorter satirical version:
Adolf - I'm sitting in my Bunker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KufHGYKqH9E#)
This was a bit off-topic, the iPad looks nice and all (and who wouldn't want to have a PADD?) but I'm certainly not going to be an early adopter.
I still don't really get what it's good for and why it should be superior to a notebook and an ebook reader, it isn't. Where am I supposed to use it and for what task? Yes, I watched Jobs presentation, but there was nothing special.
And do I really want to use a monitor with finger prints all over it? Will the surface scratch, and how well will it handle some pressure being carried around in a bag?
So, yes to SHINY but no to MUST HAVE NOW. :)
My two cents on the iPad:
This thing will probably sell the 1 million units Apple is expecting. It is slick and pretty and guys and girls between that ages of 16-25 will likely be asking for it for Christmas and birthdays.
Why? Because it is Apple and it is cheaper than a MacBook (which is what they really wanted but Dad said 'too expensive'). The iPad will give them what they want, even without 3G since most schools have WiFi for the students and there is always Panera, Starbucks, amd imsecured home networks. They will install Skype for making calls (yes, it has a microphone ), a instant messenger client, a text messaging client from the App Store, and they ya go!
My only questions are:
1) Will the iWork stuff be able to print to a network printer? If so, that would be a killer app for the device for school use.
2) How long before the OS supports Flash (a MUST!)?
3) Will it support tethering (BT or USB) with an iPhone?
4) Will it support BT fully (keyboards, stereo audio, etc.)
I could see myself buying this thing to replace my NetBook if it could do these things.
I will tell ya one more thing about this device (and the Kindle): If I can download my daughter's college textbooks on a device at half the price of the printed book for just one year, the hundreds of dollars saved would cover the purchase price. I would buy her one in a hearbeat.
Quote from: RickPeete on January 30, 2010, 06:54:32 PM
I will tell ya one more thing about this device (and the Kindle): If I can download my daughter's college textbooks on a device at half the price of the printed book for just one year, the hundreds of dollars saved would cover the purchase price. I would buy her one in a hearbeat.
Rick - You might check out some of the sites that sell textbook ebooks and see what you think. Here is one that sells textbook ebooks in Adobe and a couple of other formats. If they don't have DRM you could use Calibre (a free program) to covert them into a usable format. The Barnes and Noble nook that I own supports PDB, Epub and PDF. Here is the site:
http://www.textbooks.com/etextbooks.php (http://www.textbooks.com/etextbooks.php)
Kevin
Thanks for the info.
Actually, I work for Follett Corporation. We are the largest bookstore management and textbook management company in the US. I am pretty familiar with the textbook business and I think it will be very interesting to see how the iPad influences the whole ebook marketplace. Kindle and the Nook are the first wave. The iPad is going to really force the issue and make the competition kick it up several notches.
To that end, I hope it brings the publisher pricing down. Even my company is going to have to take serious notice of where things go.
Quote from: RickPeete on January 30, 2010, 06:54:32 PM
2) How long before the OS supports Flash (a MUST!)?
According to this week's TWiT, Steve Jobs hosted an Apple Town Hall Meeting for employes where he blasted Flash. He claimed Adobe is lazy and more often than not when a mac crashes flash did it. He claimed Flash will not be coming to the iPod Touch or the iPhone. Steve seems to be embracing HTML 5. Presumably, neither will it come to the iPad.
This really sucks for people who want a small device to watch internet videos on.
As far as flash crashing macs, Flash often will crash my Safari browser ever since the official Safari 4 came out. Crome handles it much better. And youtube runs smoother after I joined the HTML5 beta at http://www.youtube.com/html5 (http://www.youtube.com/html5)
Steve has been at war with Adobe for ages! LOL! Nothing new about that. He's not going to give in to what he considers a bad technology, come what may.
One of the most common questions people ask before buying a netbook, people ask "Does it play Hulu?"
Hopefully Hulu will make an iPad app like Youtube did. That would really alleviate not having flash.
I appreciate Rico's good natured teasing of me in this weeks podcast, and to show I am fair and balanced, here's a brief and I thin honest appraisal of what the iPad might mean for Apple following it's initial release.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/02/03/apple_seen_moving_2m_ipads_in_2010_before_sales_catalyst_emerges.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/02/03/apple_seen_moving_2m_ipads_in_2010_before_sales_catalyst_emerges.html)
Good information here - looks like the iPad will not have the ability to tether to an already existing iPhone data plan. This lack of tethering has been an annoyance to me for some time (as an avid iPhone user & fan). I was able to tether my old Windows Mobile 6.1 HTC Tilt phone to my laptop a few years ago.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/190976/apples_ipad_wont_tether_with_iphone_report_says.html (http://www.pcworld.com/article/190976/apples_ipad_wont_tether_with_iphone_report_says.html)
How many data plans does AT&T think people are willing to buy? This is just asking for people to jailbreak it.
iPad reviews from NYT and Wall Street Journal are coming in and they are impressed. Apple has a very real chance to corner the net book and e-reader space with this device, mark my words.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/03/31/first_sanctioned_ipad_reviews_speak_favorably_of_new_device.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/03/31/first_sanctioned_ipad_reviews_speak_favorably_of_new_device.html)
Well I just saw a confirmed posting that said NetFlix is going to create a free iPad App that will allow subscribers to their service to view their On Demand videos on the iPad. And there is a rumor that Hulu is in fact, creating an iPad app as well (although this has not been confirmed and there is no info regarding whether this will be a FREE App or whether Hulu will charge a subscriber fee).
I am still going to stick with my DELL Mini 10v for now since it does everything I need. But if in the future, iPad v2.0 comes with a front-facing camera to make Video Skype workable, and has a way to tether to my iPhone, then I might make the switch.
Quote from: RickPeete on April 01, 2010, 10:09:30 PM
Well I just saw a confirmed posting that said NetFlix is going to create a free iPad App that will allow subscribers to their service to view their On Demand videos on the iPad. And there is a rumor that Hulu is in fact, creating an iPad app as well (although this has not been confirmed and there is no info regarding whether this will be a FREE App or whether Hulu will charge a subscriber fee).
I am still going to stick with my DELL Mini 10v for now since it does everything I need. But if in the future, iPad v2.0 comes with a front-facing camera to make Video Skype workable, and has a way to tether to my iPhone, then I might make the switch.
I'm with you. Without the tether ability it's a waste of money imo.
A rather sweeping statement. You may not use it but why does that make it a waste for everyone else?
Personally, I'm simply not interested in the form factor at the moment.
Quote from: RickPeete on April 01, 2010, 10:09:30 PM
Well I just saw a confirmed posting that said NetFlix is going to create a free iPad App that will allow subscribers to their service to view their On Demand videos on the iPad. And there is a rumor that Hulu is in fact, creating an iPad app as well (although this has not been confirmed and there is no info regarding whether this will be a FREE App or whether Hulu will charge a subscriber fee).
I'm not sure this is true - might have been April Fool's thing. I think Netflix is using a Flash based streaming method - and Jobs doesn't seem to approve of Flash. Same trouble with hulu.com. If they did come up with a way to show both of these I might even be tempted to get an iPad.
I also read Marvel comics is going to have an app and charge $2.00 per comic in digital form (which is too much - in my opinion for a $3.00 comic).
Basically they'd have to implement H.264 streaming. I'm not sure of the details of such an implementation but I imagine all the source video would need to either be converted on the fly or bulk converted and stored.
Read it for yourself:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103230.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103230.html)
Quote from: billybob476 on April 02, 2010, 05:32:50 AM
Basically they'd have to implement H.264 streaming. I'm not sure of the details of such an implementation but I imagine all the source video would need to either be converted on the fly or bulk converted and stored.
Yep - and I can't see it being possible to convert it on the fly. That's a lot of computing power. You need to store it. And that still means converting ahead of time and storing a lot of data. But, if they think it is worth it maybe it will happen.
Quote from: RickPeete on April 02, 2010, 05:44:59 AM
Read it for yourself:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103230.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/01/AR2010040103230.html)
Yep, this was covered on CNBC yesterday as well. Netflix stock had yet another nice bounce. That has been a great investment this year, wish I owned it.
Well, I'm a bit surprised. I really wonder how much this is costing Netflix to do? Now, if only www.hulu.com (http://www.hulu.com) would join in.
Quote from: Rico on April 02, 2010, 06:58:03 AM
Well, I'm a bit surprised. I really wonder how much this is costing Netflix to do?
They have to go where the money will be and they are making a strategic bet that the iPad is going to be the device for people who want this content.
oh, I am trying to figure out an extra project to do to get the $ for this. I know I shouldn't envy or covet, but .. "ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" I can see one of these babies in my hands. hehehe.
Quote from: moyer777 on April 02, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
oh, I am trying to figure out an extra project to do to get the $ for this. I know I shouldn't envy or covet, but .. "ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" I can see one of these babies in my hands. hehehe.
Wait, for version 2.0 in a few months. Cheaper, faster, with a camera, more storage, etc. ;)
I can hear you and Yoda on this one. "Mmm, patience Rick, patience you must have" :yoda
Quote from: Rico on April 02, 2010, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: moyer777 on April 02, 2010, 07:42:35 AM
oh, I am trying to figure out an extra project to do to get the $ for this. I know I shouldn't envy or covet, but .. "ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" I can see one of these babies in my hands. hehehe.
Wait, for version 2.0 in a few months. Cheaper, faster, with a camera, more storage, etc. ;)
This is what I'm doing. Even if I had the $$, I'm going to wait for 2.0. That'll be even sweeter than 1.0.
King
No USB! No Camera! A measly 16 gig for $500
A virtual keyboard that reduces screen size and won't tilt up.
It looks really dumb to me.
My Archos PMA400 has USB and 30 gig and fits in my pocket and it is 3 years old technology. I think the iPad is an overpriced, under capable product designed for Apple fans.
Of course the trouble with netbooks is WINDOWS. Great hardware screwed up by malignant software.
But what does Ubunto do? I upgrade from 8.04 to 9.10 and the floppy drive stops working. I found other people with Google having the same problem.
This is like stereo equipment back in the 70s. They need to change things to motivate purchases though there is no significant improvement. So what can I do with a 320 gig drive that I can't do with a 160 gig drive? Store more video that I don't have time to watch? Give me computers that are useful and without DUMB BUGS.
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT COOL!
psik
Well, considering they've sold 9,000+ units already without being released, I guess we're all suckers.
I agree with you Psikeyhackr, while cool, I couldn't deny that the entire time I read over this, it felt like a Giant iPod touch. That is not nearly enough to pull me in which is why I'm waiting for 2.0. It would also help if Apple wasn't tied to At&t which its coverage of our area is horribly bad. "97% of Americans" my butt.
King
Still, its pretty nice either way.
Quote from: psikeyhackr on April 02, 2010, 02:52:22 PM
No USB! No Camera! A measly 16 gig for $500
A virtual keyboard that reduces screen size and won't tilt up.
It looks really dumb to me.
My Archos PMA400 has USB and 30 gig and fits in my pocket and it is 3 years old technology. I think the iPad is an overpriced, under capable product designed for Apple fans.
Of course the trouble with netbooks is WINDOWS. Great hardware screwed up by malignant software.
But what does Ubunto do? I upgrade from 8.04 to 9.10 and the floppy drive stops working. I found other people with Google having the same problem.
This is like stereo equipment back in the 70s. They need to change things to motivate purchases though there is no significant improvement. So what can I do with a 320 gig drive that I can't do with a 160 gig drive? Store more video that I don't have time to watch? Give me computers that are useful and without DUMB BUGS.
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT COOL!
psik
Don't hold back man, tell us how you really feel. lol
Actually I agree with most of what you just wrote. Especially the comments about buggy software.
I'm still not impressed. If I am going to shell out that much, it's going to have stuff that doesn't limit me as much as apple does.
I did not mean it's a waste of money for everyone else. Just that without the tether ability I see it being a waste for me. Only wi-fi would not work in many places I go during my day so I couldn't use it. To have to put up the money for another contract with AT&T seems like a major waste when I don't really need the thing. It would be really cool to be able to use it for Netflix and the Marvel app. And I hear Hulu might release an app. But I don't need those things.
Here is what I would like to see in the next release to peak my interest:
USB port
Forward facing camera
Ability to tether to any Bluetooth data-phone (like my iPhone)
MMC slot
A pie-in-the-sky wish list for me - and an immediate sale - would be:
a MacBook scaled down to use an 11.6" WS LCD or 10.1" WS LCD
Here's what I want to see:
Universal support for FLASH!
Just read a story about a guy who started with $500 unit and would up spending over $1100. The only issue with apple - lack of clones fix their prices higher than usual. I might play around with one but doubt I would buy it.
Quote from: Rico on April 03, 2010, 08:46:00 AM
Here's what I want to see:
Universal support for FLASH!
Yes that would be nice - but Brother Jobs will never allow it - then you could circumvent his app store and cut him out of his piece of the action...
This is the first thing I've seen that makes me want one, the app is comiczeal I already have on my i phone but zooming in and out is kinda of a pain
maybe when ver 2 comes out people will sell ver 1 for a decent price.
(http://www.boingboing.net/201003261310.jpg)
What I was thinking about the ipad was either a swivel webcam or two webcams. Id rather not flip my Ipad over in a skype chat, but I also don't want to show my screen to everyone as I take a picture. I also would love FLASH!!!!! and USB ports
So, did anyone get an iPad yet? Bryan??
Bryan isn't getting it anytime soon. He wants others to get it to help the stock, but I don't think he's in a rush for it either. :angel:
Yeah, for the biggest Apple fan on the forum Bryan really needs to step up his game! ;)
P.S. I hear that hackers are targeting some exploits on the iPad. Guess Apple has made the big time now.
LOL! I really want a Verizon version and a camera, so I'm more of a 2.0 adopter, but you all go right ahead! ;) I'm also very cheap.
Sales numbers for the WiFi only version this weekend were 300K+, very solid. When the G3 enabled version comes out next month as well as Europe, we'll see how much traction version 1.0 will have.
What's a Verizon version? You mean a 3G version that Verizon will support? I thought Jobs was still in bed with AT&T only?
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 11:51:27 AM
What's a Verizon version? You mean a 3G version that Verizon will support? I thought Jobs was still in bed with AT&T only?
We are hearing through various channel checks that a Verizon enabled CDMA G3 phone is in the works. If that happens, the iPad would likely not be too far behind. You won't hear anything from Apple on this as they don't want people to hold off buying..but you heard it here first. :)
Quote from: Bryancd on April 05, 2010, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 11:51:27 AM
What's a Verizon version? You mean a 3G version that Verizon will support? I thought Jobs was still in bed with AT&T only?
We are hearing through various channel checks that a Verizon enabled CDMA G3 phone is in the works. If that happens, the iPad would likely not be too far behind. You won't hear anything from Apple on this as they don't want people to hold off buying..but you heard it here first. :)
From what I know, the 3G enabled iPad should work on any 3G network. However, Apple is only allowing AT&T for right now. It isn't a hardware issue. But keep in mind it still won't tether to any phone plan. In other words it's a separate fee for 3G support. So it really doesn't matter what phone you have. Unless you really don't want to give AT&T either $15 or $30 a month for iPad 3G.
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 12:13:19 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on April 05, 2010, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 11:51:27 AM
What's a Verizon version? You mean a 3G version that Verizon will support? I thought Jobs was still in bed with AT&T only?
We are hearing through various channel checks that a Verizon enabled CDMA G3 phone is in the works. If that happens, the iPad would likely not be too far behind. You won't hear anything from Apple on this as they don't want people to hold off buying..but you heard it here first. :)
From what I know, the 3G enabled iPad should work on any 3G network. However, Apple is only allowing AT&T for right now. It isn't a hardware issue. But keep in mind it still won't tether to any phone plan. In other words it's a separate fee for 3G support. So it really doesn't matter what phone you have. Unless you really don't want to give AT&T either $15 or $30 a month for iPad 3G.
See, I was wondering about that. My understanding was a Verizon enabled iPad would need a different chip set, so if I bought the current model, I would not be able to use Verizon if they ever open a data plan. No? I don't care about the tether, I just prefer Verizons network coverage, especially here in the Southwest.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 05, 2010, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 12:13:19 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on April 05, 2010, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: Rico on April 05, 2010, 11:51:27 AM
What's a Verizon version? You mean a 3G version that Verizon will support? I thought Jobs was still in bed with AT&T only?
We are hearing through various channel checks that a Verizon enabled CDMA G3 phone is in the works. If that happens, the iPad would likely not be too far behind. You won't hear anything from Apple on this as they don't want people to hold off buying..but you heard it here first. :)
From what I know, the 3G enabled iPad should work on any 3G network. However, Apple is only allowing AT&T for right now. It isn't a hardware issue. But keep in mind it still won't tether to any phone plan. In other words it's a separate fee for 3G support. So it really doesn't matter what phone you have. Unless you really don't want to give AT&T either $15 or $30 a month for iPad 3G.
See, I was wondering about that. My understanding was a Verizon enabled iPad would need a different chip set, so if I bought the current model, I would not be able to use Verizon if they ever open a data plan. No? I don't care about the tether, I just prefer Verizons network coverage, especially here in the Southwest.
Frankly Bryan, I'm not entirely sure. But you obviously would at least need a 3G capable iPAD (which isn't out yet). I'm kind of going by people who have "hacked" their iPhones to get them to work on different services. That plus you are not required to sign up for any 3G plan when you buy a 3G capable iPAD (unlike the current iPhone). All this leads me to believe it would work with other 3G plans - at least at some point. I'm hoping for Sprint myself! :)
Yeah, CDMA and GSM are entirely different protocols so I'm fairly sure different chipsets will be required.
Historically I always followed the Palm devices which came out as CDMA variants first. Over here we had to wait until the follow-up GSM version was developed before we saw the devices.
When they say 'any network' they normally mean 'it has a SIM slot'. As far as I know, your CDMA networks don't use SIM cards so something else is obviously required to make it work.
And there you go, cheers Mike!
And for those of us who are curious...
http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-13636_11-410988.html?tag=nl.e099.dl100407&tag=nl.e099 (http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-13636_11-410988.html?tag=nl.e099.dl100407&tag=nl.e099)
Seems like (over here) Apple are having a lot of complaints and people sending theirs back because they simply cannot access the internet. Sure its just teething problems and the fact that in the UK you can be standing next to a bloody phone mast and still not get a signal lol
It's happened here, too, Meds. I think (hope) it's a software fix not a hardware issue.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 08, 2010, 04:58:15 PM
It's happened here, too, Meds. I think (hope) it's a software fix not a hardware issue.
It's a Wi-Fi connect issue (since 3-G model isn't out yet)? Really?? That's very odd. Could very well be hardware.
No, the 3G model comes out next month.
Yeah I heard about this issue on Crankygeeks, but I think there is a patch for it already.
I doubt it will hurt them too much. If it's that common then no one will argue blame so I expect it to low over quite quickly. It still surprises me how something reaches the public with problems like this though.
Darn it! I want one now after watching this!
iPad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9BB3i1VGSg#)
is that an application for Ipad or did this person create that.
Rico's in. :)
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on April 09, 2010, 04:48:06 PM
is that an application for Ipad or did this person create that.
http://trekmovie.com/2010/04/07/great-links-star-trek-and-ipad-edition/ (http://trekmovie.com/2010/04/07/great-links-star-trek-and-ipad-edition/)
Oh man.. they removed the App.. that's a bummer. I've been on the wall about getting one but if that App was still available I'd lean more towards getting it. :(
i want one but toooooo expensive
It is a great...thing, it is just not that good. You will be easily dazzled by it when you play with it but when you have 500 dollars, you can come up with something else. I rather get some more stuff for my computer
Played with one a little bit at a Best Buy yesterday. Kind of cool and will probably end up with one at some point. Maybe the next iteration. One thing I noticed is it seemed a bit heavier than I thought it would be. But, it is a pretty device.
I thought the weight seemed fine, a bit heavy when your are holding it but I figured it would be.
Heard about this on another Podcast.......don't watch if you love Apple and Tech
HD Apple iPad on a Blentec blender Question Will It Blend_Real Destruction video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_RkMRCnlBM#)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT THE IPAD!!!! :'(
Will it blend, oh roflcopter. Definitely shenanigans in this video.
King
Wow -- waste of a good fashion accessory.... ;)
Quote from: Darkmolerman on April 18, 2010, 04:59:41 PM
It is a great...thing, it is just not that good. You will be easily dazzled by it when you play with it but when you have 500 dollars, you can come up with something else. I rather get some more stuff for my computer
hey your right
Quote from: Bromptonboy on April 20, 2010, 05:35:21 PM
Wow -- waste of a good fashion accessory.... ;)
They should pour the contents in a glass to make you eat those words. You'll see..... :biggrin
Now here's an app after our hearts:
LCARS Reader for the iPad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwBGDHyAcmg#)
Yeah Rico posted about this a few pages back.. too bad the app was pulled for copyright infringement.
I got to play around with one of the iPads at a convention today (AIIM in Philadelphia). It is nice, but I still prefer the versatility of a mini.
Yes, I too played with one at BestBuy. A bit sensitive and the keyboard was like a cell phone. You have enter "numeric mode" to get the numbers. Tapping things on the web is tricky for small links/images. I didn't see one - does it come with a stylus?
Facebook is really hard on the Ipad, after school I tried to check my 300+ status updates, I got to about 50-100 before I accidentally click on a link. Also someone changed it to simplified Chinese so typing was...well foreign
Quote from: sheldore on April 21, 2010, 05:50:25 PM
Yes, I too played with one at BestBuy. A bit sensitive and the keyboard was like a cell phone. You have enter "numeric mode" to get the numbers. Tapping things on the web is tricky for small links/images. I didn't see one - does it come with a stylus?
No stylus. You can enlarge things to the level that works best for your finger size. I didn't find it overly sensitive. With all the "touching" you need to do on this thing, you really don't want something you have to bang or press hard on to do things.
While it doesn't come with a stylus, they do have some available. Scott tried one out and posted a short video. I imagine they're more geared towards art.
My Quick look at the Pogo Stylus for the iPhone and iPad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQHsAdtD8wI#)
Frak! That's awesome! Didn't know it had such nice art abilities. I want one more now.
(Must fight urge to go to Best Buy after work.) ;)
Mine's in freaking China right now :( Supposed to be coming on the 26th.
That stylus is a pretty neat add-on. I wonder why they didn't include a simple one? Wait for iPad 2.x Rico! :)
Scott makes it look really easy too. I don't think my stick men would be quite as compelling as an iPad art demo :)
Quote from: Bromptonboy on April 22, 2010, 08:30:21 AM
That stylus is a pretty neat add-on. I wonder why they didn't include a simple one? Wait for iPad 2.x Rico! :)
I'm pretty sure that the stylus is simply another of those things that Apple doesn't believe in. Touch screen devices have had stylii for years. The choice of Apple not to include one was pretty deliberate in my view.
That is so funny, I was going to post that video cause I watched Scott use one yesterday! Joe, you beat me to it!
I love it!
My iPad came yesterday and I spent a couple/few hours setting it up and playing around with it last night. In my excitement surrounding its impending arrival (I ordered it from Apple's website on 4/12 so I had a couple weeks of anticipation) I had done a lot of scouring of the internet so I was pretty sure I knew what the first several downloads were going to be. I'm at work writing this, so I won't be adding photos of my tablet to this post, unless there's a burning demand and I can edit later to add some when I get home. I'm happy to be able to post my initial impressions here and perhaps it may persuade some of you that are on the fence about this product one way or the other.
My model is Wifi only, 32 Gb capacity. I also purchased the dock connector, and the Apple branded case. The case hasn't arrived yet.
The only peripherals that come with the device are the cable to connect it to your computer and the charger. It's important to note that unlike the iPod and iPhone, the iPad does not charge while connected to a Windows PC or any iMac released before 2008. I have to use the charger connected to a wall outlet. The device comes with a full charge and after three or four hours of watching movies and playing games at full screen brightness, the charge didn't go below 89%! I had heard that the battery was a huge improvement over Apple's smaller products and it turns out to be true. I was pretty disappointed that there weren't earbuds included in the box. I love the Apple earbuds and could always use an extra pair.
So the first thing you have to do is sync the iPad to your computer through iTunes and sign up for or sign in to your Apple ID. It asks you to register the device and this is quick and easy. Once done the iPad shows up in iTunes. It asks you to set up your sync preferences. I always choose to manually manage all my files because I don't want iTunes deleting things from my computer or device unless I tell it to. Then came my only scare with the device, but it was a huge one. I was very excited to see how the M4V files that I had been watching on my iPhone looked on the iPad. I took a movie file I had on my computer, and tried to transfer it to the iPad the same way I had always done with all my other Apple devices, dragging and dropping the file from its folder into iTunes. I then got a series of critical error messages, first saying the file couldn't be copied because it couldn't be located, then that the iPad could not sync at all for an unknown reason. I then noticed that the displayed memory capacity of the device had changed to from 29Gb available to only 4Gb total with only 1Gb available, even though there was nothing loaded on it yet! Well I started to freak out. I searched the web for reports of similar errors, and while I did come up with a number of issues with syncing, nothing exactly matched the problem I experienced. Finally I hit the restore to factory settings option on iTunes, and after a few minutes of abject terror that I had already broken my $600 device, the iPad was back to it's out of the box state. I changed the settings to syncing through iTunes, cleared out my iTunes library, and tried to load the same files using the iTunes sync feature. Everything loaded normally, and I breathed a sigh of relief. It's a little annoying because it appears I have to get used to a new way of managing my files, and Apple is forcing me to do things "their way or the highway," but I guess I can deal with it.
In any case, the movie I tried to watch looked fantastic. The quality was probably a bit less than if I had rented or purchased the movie through the iTunes store, but it was still absolutely beautiful. The sound was something else. The speakers are pretty good but even at full volume they are not going to adequately compete with any type of background noise. Late at night in a quiet room the speakers would be totally sufficient, but at any other time you are going to want to plug in your headphones. Holding the iPad is going to get tiresome after extended periods, it is kind of heavy. Sitting with it on your lap is pretty comfortable though, lying down in bed with it is easy and super comfortable with the screen orientation locking feature, and the case I bought props the thing up in various ways very nicely.
The next thing I did was load up a couple of the iPhone apps I had purchased and housed on my computer over the past few months. The iPad will run virtually all of the iPhone apps, and you have a choice between a little box in the middle of the screen the same size as the iPhone, or you can blow up the display 2x to almost utilize the entire screen. The apps I transferred were Plants vs. Zombies (game), and Space Ace (game). I was happy to find that the iPhone games played perfectly on the iPad. The display was beautiful, with only the slightest fuzziness around the edges that came from blowing up the display. I'd say if you have already purchased something for the iPhone and find a "HD" version now available for the iPad at 3-4x the price, don't bother upgrading.
This brings to mind an initial concern I have about the apps and pricing. The price range of the majority of iPhone apps has been generally between free and $1.99. There's a few that might go a bit higher, but they max out at around $5. Things are much different with the iPad. It is not unusual to find apps priced at $15 or more. It seems that the days of .99 cent killer apps are done, at least for now.
Next I went into wifi settings and connected the tablet to my wireless router. I tried out the Safari browser, and found web browsing a breeze. Of course the first thing I did was load up the TrekSF forums, and they looked terrific. The text is still a little small, but a quick little flick zooms the page nicely, and even the native size is readable, not like the nightmare the forums are to read on the iPhone. Web browsing is going to be a lot of fun with this, I am sure. My wife then grabbed the iPad and logged into her Facebook account. 30 minutes later I had to literally pry it out of her hands. Suffice to say she is in love with this thing.
I checked out the App Store and downloaded a couple of the ones I had earmarked for immediate use. These were iBooks, the Kindle app, Cloud Reader, and Netflix. All were free apps. IBooks is the Apple branded book store and book reader. It comes with Winnie the Pooh by A.A. Milne as a free download, which I will enjoy reading to my kids. I'm looking forward to exploring the book store in more detail, but these ebooks are just too expensive for me I think. $14.99 and up for little PDF files is just too much for my budget. The Kindle app lets you connect and download books from the Amazon Kindle store, which might drive down Apple's pricing a bit with a little competition. I was most excited for the Cloud Reader. This is a free app that lets you upload your digital comics collection to your iPad and read them the way you would read any other ebook. It supports PDF, CBR, and CBZ files. Uploading files is a snap with this, you have a choice to do it over wifi or through iTunes. I have a feeling I am going to be reading a TON of comics with this device. They look absolutely gorgeous. There's also a free Marvel comics app that lets you download new and classic comics from their servers at $1.99 a pop, a really reasonable price. I haven't tried this out yet but I've read that it is really high quality.
The last thing I tried before reluctantly putting the device down was the free Netflix app. It was a breeze to reactivate my account, with $8.99/month being the lowest subscription that offers unlimited instant streaming. I was pleased to note that even though it's been almost a year since my free two weeks had been used up, the Netflix website still remembered all my settings and preferences and applied them right from the get go. I streamed a few minutes of King of Kong, a great documentary, and it loaded up in seconds, streaming seamlessly in gorgeous quality. This is the killer app for the device, I am sure. The list of instant streaming movies and TV shows is huge, and I imagine I will always be able to find something new to watch whenever I want.
Whew...anyone still reading this? Much longer post than I expected to write and maybe I will try to record something for a future podcast if anyone is interested in hearing me babble on a bit more.
Still reading...
Given what you say about Netflix, I'll be interested to see how the iPad does over here (and in other countries) where we won't have the Netflix drive to persuade us to buy one.
(Plus, I find the forum perectly acceptable on the iPhone.)
Joby- EXCELLENT review, I loved every word of it and can't wait to hear more. THANK you.
Oh, I can hardly wait till version 2!!!
Great, great review/comments on the iPad Joby. It's refreshing to read someone who actually owns one and has put it through it's paces a bit. A few questions come to mind:
- Do you know the range of video codecs/file types the iPad can play? Specifically can it handle .mkv files??
- With regards to comics I read the iPad actually has to convert the comic files and that takes a little time. It's a resolution issue I think. I am speaking of things like .cbr files. Did you notice this? I'm curious if you move comic files to your iPad if it takes much time to convert them? I'm also curious how much of Marvel and DC new/current line of comics will come out in this form.
- I'm a bit dissappointed the sound isn't better/louder. I'm not a big fan of using something like this with earbuds a lot. Maybe they will improve on that.
-- Any regrets not getting the 3G version?
x2, great stuff. It's that web browsing experience/video watching that draws me the most. My limited experience browsing the web on an iPhone I thought was far too limiting in term of veiweing the content.
The iPhone is definitely limited in terms of browsing. It's the best 'limited' experience I've had but I imagine the iPad is lightyears better.
I'll try my best to answer your questions, Rico but keep in mind I am no Apple Genius.
The iPad plays the same video formats that the iPhone and iPod touch plays. MP4 and M4V. No AVI, no DIVX, no MKV, and definitely no WMV. I'll paste here directly from the Apple website in gibberish I don't fully understand, but you probably will:
"H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format"
Personally I find the restrictive file formatting pretty annoying, but I found a simple, free conversion program that I use for my iPhone that converts most types of movie files to iPod/iPhone format. It's a resource hog and sometimes my laptop crashes mid conversion, but usually it works ok. With a Netflix subscription I'm not sure I will ever need to load movies onto this thing anyway, except I guess for when I'm not around a wifi hotspot.
I dont think that the iPad is converting comics when I upload them. They upload to the device as fast as any other type of file of similar size, and the reader I use opens the files instantly when I tap it. There doesnt appear to be any delay for conversion at all. I did read something about early versions of one of the comic apps having to convert CBR files but I think subsequent updates have allowed the files to be read in their native format. I have uploaded all three formats (CBR, CBZ, and PDF), and all perform equally well. I have a pretty big digital comic collection and this thing was made for reading them.
As I said, the speakers were perfectly adequate in a room with no background noise. It can't compete with a TV or stereo going at the same time though. I am totally used to my headphones anyway, so this doesnt really bother me.
As for 3G, I'll say that while it would be nice to have...to me it's not worth $150 more base price plus a monthly data plan. If I could utilize the data plan I am already paying to AT&T for my iPhone, then I could see myself paying the extra bucks for a 3G model. Currently, no way. I honestly don't see myself taking this out of the house too often anyway. It is too big to comfortably lug around without a backpack or briefcase. I'd be afraid of damaging it, losing it, or having it stolen. For me the major appeal is the absolute portability around the house: Streaming movies on the front porch or stretched out in the back yard in a hammock on a warm spring evening, easy access to your favorite recipies in the kitchen using the epicurious app or website, reading comics on the potty...I really don't need or want to take it on the go.
I forgot to mention that I also downloaded and tried the free to play MMORPG called Pocket Legends. Kind of WoW lite for the iPad. I'm only level 3 at the moment so I'll report back on that one for sure. Elf Mage Callista signing off.
I would think we need to cut the speakers a little slack, they have to be tiny so there will be compromise in sound volume and quality. But to be honest, if I am in public, I would wear ear buds regardless just to be courteous to those around me.
I agree Bryan, and like I said I think the speakers are pretty good if they are all you are listening to at the time. For music or any kind of PA you would definitely want to attach some external speakers.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 27, 2010, 12:42:21 PM
I would think we need to cut the speakers a little slack, they have to be tiny so there will be compromise in sound volume and quality. But to be honest, if I am in public, I would wear ear buds regardless just to be courteous to those around me.
Why do we need to cut the speakers some slack? They, not a headset are included with the product. If they are going to include onboard speakers, should someone expect them to be quality? If they can only put in sub par speaker, why add them in the first place when it's obvious you are going to need external ones?
That doesn't make sense to me and if it was any other product, I don't people would be asking that a pass is given about a sub standard feature.
The size of the speakers also doesn't fly. Bose and many of their imitators have been making quality micro speakers for some time. It's not as if the tech doesn't exist.
I also think that small, good speakers are very possible in this unit. It comes down to cost and what they are trying to achieve. One thing to keep in mind with a larger unit like the iPad is unlike an iPhone or iPod touch this thing can be easily shared by two people watching a video. And if you do that, they both need sound. Yes, you could split the earphone jack signal and each be wearing earbuds, but all those wires get messy. I really expect in future versions that we will see better internal sound.
It's an economic decision. Better quality speakers equals a higher price point. He didn't say they were bad, they were harder to hear in a crowded room. If you're in a crowded room blasting you media, I would think that's pretty rude. I don't want to hear you stuff and no one else does. If you are home watching content with a friend, then they seem perfectly adequate. I HATE hearing crap being played on other peoples lap tops in public, FYI.
People playing these in public places really doesn't come into play with regards to speaker quality. I'm talking about using them in the privacy of your home or car, etc. There, I want them to sound sweet. Also, if they are really pushing this as a media entertainment system, the audio should be of high quality. Keep in mind, Apple has typically slowly upgraded audio on their products. They never even used to have external audio on their products, and they added it because their customers wanted it. And that is really the reason they will upgrade this Bryan. There is room in that price point to add better speakers - I'm sure of it.
Next gen iPad:
Camera (can handle video and still)
Better audio
More storage
Lighter
Even longer battery life
More ready to use apps
(the list goes on and on)
Please keep in mind I am not dissing the product at all - and I don't think Joby was either. Heck, I'm fighting myself from buying one right now. But, there is always room to improve things and grow. It will bring in even more customers and make that good old stock price climb even higher. ;)
No don't get me wrong, I loved Joby's review, I was responding to Chris.
Here's what he said, "As I said, the speakers were perfectly adequate in a room with no background noise." So clearly the only criticism being leveled is that in an airport, they are hard to hear...but you should be using your ear buds then anyway.
What is that conversion program you found if I may ask? Great review otherwise Joby, thanks for the information. I too am in the process of testing Pocket Legends, but don't have the time atm.
King
Oh and I agree, it needs to be way more than 32 GB before I give an iPad another look. Sorry, but my tiny iPod touch here can handle 32GB, why can't the iPad handle even 100? (Yes yes, economics, etc).
King
I use Vuze, formerly Azureus, as my bit torrent client, and it has a converter built in that will format movie files to work on the 360, PS3, PSP, and iPod/phone/pad.
I imagine all the current limitations of the iPad were done to come in at that all important price point. They could have thrown everything under the sun into it and it would cost 1500 dollars. They could have thrown in an 80 gig Solid State Drive but those still run over 200 dollars each.
Quote from: billybob476 on April 27, 2010, 08:00:11 PM
I imagine all the current limitations of the iPad were done to come in at that all important price point. They could have thrown everything under the sun into it and it would cost 1500 dollars. They could have thrown in an 80 gig Solid State Drive but those still run over 200 dollars each.
Well, to a degree. But keep in mind big businesses get very big discounts on prices for what goes into a product. If I had to put a number on it, I would say the components in there maybe add up to half the selling cost. Give or take. I just personally think audio is a fairly important feature. Tell you a little story. Back when I did a lot of work at automotive assembly plants there was one plant that made fairly high end SUV's. I learned the actual manufacturing cost of the vehicles. It was about a third of the MSRP. All I'm saying is there will be improvements and I'm betting the price does not go up for them on the iPad. In fact, I bet the price will drop.
Oh yeah, that's a fact. I guess I mean they need to come in at their price point AND get their desired markup :)
I remember reading about the car pricing models. I believe they make very, very little on their low end cars with the hope that those same people come back for their next car and purchase that high end SUV.
I guess since this is a new product, part of the price will be for the research and development. Also the cost to setup factories with tools to manaufacture the iPads would factor in to the intial price and what parts are put in to meet a price point. I suspect over time, with future releases they will add better components, as they will have gotten the money back on their initial investments. Also, better sound and other features will give people who bought the first versions a reason or desire to upgrade. Maybe as well, the feedback they get from this first release, will give them an idea on where the priorities are for the next version on what to upgrade, maybe people want better sounding speakers, or maybe they feel the current speakers are acceptable.
Joby wrote a great review, and gave me a real good idea of what the iPad is like. I have not seen a iPad in person yet, so was cool to hear his views on it.
Good points Jeff. Yep - darn Joby has made me really want one - now! :ohbaby
From what I've been reading about the product, I believe that Apple was trying to fill a niche with the home user. The iPad is portable -but I think it was planned more as multi-media access device an entire family could take from room to room in their home. Mom/Dad could use it in the kitchen while they work or the kids can watch a movie or play games in the bedroom and then someone can read a book in the family room. I suppose if they could afford it, a family could conceivably have more than one in the home. What I mean is, that it's portable, but not necessarily (originally) designed to take around town with you. That may explain the performance of the speakers and some of the other concerns people have about it. I'm paraphrasing most of this from an interview Steve Jobs did in Time Magazine recently.
Edit; I tracked down the Time article, but there is little reference to in-home use of the iPad. So....I'll have to find the correct article.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1976935-1,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1976935-1,00.html)
If anyone has posted anything alluding to what I just wrote- my apologies. I just didn't feel like rereading all 179 previous threads. :) Lazy? Yeah.
I heard somewhere that the Ipad was just about half the price to make. One of the big reasons I am not getting it is because of how fragile it is, I already scratched the front of my flip by having it in my pocket image what will happen to the Ipad in my school bag!
Most people have said you definitely need a case.
1,000,000 iPads sold so far. Just sayin'... :)
By the way, that's MORE than the iPhone after it's introduction.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 03, 2010, 05:46:12 PM
1,000,000 iPads sold so far. Just sayin'... :)
By the way, that's MORE than the iPhone after it's introduction.
Sheeeeeeeeesh. That's just crazy.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on May 03, 2010, 05:46:12 PM
1,000,000 iPads sold so far. Just sayin'... :)
By the way, that's MORE than the iPhone after it's introduction.
Good for them. Lots of money for them to put into version 2.0!
Quote from: Bryancd on May 03, 2010, 05:46:12 PM
1,000,000 iPads sold so far. Just sayin'... :)
By the way, that's MORE than the iPhone after it's introduction.
Well, what do I know anyways! Never the less, I will wait for 2.x - that should be more of a keeper.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on May 04, 2010, 03:44:11 AM
Well, what do I know anyways! Never the less, I will wait for 2.x - that should be more of a keeper.
I still don't know. I have the iPhone to do what it does and really don't need a bigger version. What I do need is something to type/write on and so I don't think a simple tablet will be enough.
I'm pleased it's doing so well, though, it should ensure a glut of iPhone OS applications that I can for years to come :)
So far I've gotten the most use out of it with my kids. At night, before bed, my son and daughter and I pick out a movie to stream from the Netflix app, lay on the bed on our bellies and watch for a half hour or so. My daughter loves the Veggie Tales movies, and the collection of Scooby Doo cartoons. We watched the Muppets Take Manhattan the other night, and I inadvertently traumatized my son by putting on Labyrinth. We got about five minutes in before he started crying. Overall though snuggling with my kids for "movie night" has been the best thing about the iPad so far.
Steve Jobs should use that in the ads and call it, "the snuggle factor." :)
Quote from: Rico on May 04, 2010, 08:22:56 AM
Steve Jobs should use that in the ads and call it, "the snuggle factor." :)
He'll copyright it, create a new soft pillow version, and call it the iSnuggle. :)
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on May 04, 2010, 07:12:13 AM
So far I've gotten the most use out of it with my kids. At night, before bed, my son and daughter and I pick out a movie to stream from the Netflix app, lay on the bed on our bellies and watch for a half hour or so. My daughter loves the Veggie Tales movies, and the collection of Scooby Doo cartoons. We watched the Muppets Take Manhattan the other night, and I inadvertently traumatized my son by putting on Labyrinth. We got about five minutes in before he started crying. Overall though snuggling with my kids for "movie night" has been the best thing about the iPad so far.
my daughter loved the labyrinth when she saw it a few months ago.
I have just realized something...in science class. If Steve Jobs hates flash...then make a flash proxy like....ihateflash, or something
Quote from: Just X on May 04, 2010, 01:34:45 PMmy daughter loved the labyrinth when she saw it a few months ago.
It was actually heartbreaking. My older son will be 3 at the end of June. I didn't remember how Labyrinth begins, but the scene in the very beginning with the older sister holding the baby and praying to the Goblins to take it away, combined with the really scary muppet Goblins terrified my boy. The camp humor of the goblins was lost on him and all he saw were scary monsters. He turned to me with his lower lip sticking out and tears in his eyes and he said "what's going to happen Daddy?" I felt like the worst dad ever.
I'd say 3 is pretty young for that movie. Especially with the whole taking the baby thing. Show him some animated Trek episodes! ;)
P.S. Joby - what's the best convertor you have found to convert a DVD to an iPad compatible movie? Or are you just streaming via Netflix so far? Also, this might be a silly question, but does the iPad have an ethernet port or is it wireless only??
i use iPodME to convert for my iPhone. I spits out m4v video in the appropriate format for the device your using.
http://ipodme.en.softonic.com/ (http://ipodme.en.softonic.com/)
I believe the iPad is wifi only (though of course you can dock it to a computer via USB)
I'm going to give iPodME a try. Is the full featured version free or is there a license fee?
I use Vuze (formerly Azureus) which has a converter built in. It takes movie files and makes them compatible for a variety of platforms, including the iPad/iPod. The problem is my computer often crashes in the middle of a conversion which is obviously very frustrating.
And yeah, no ethernet port. You are limited to WiFi and/or 3G and the proprietary 30 pin connector to USB for getting files on and off the device. I've seen reports that the camera connection kit, a separate accessory made to allow the direct loading of digital pictures to the iPad instead of having to sync to a computer, has the ability to accept input from other USB devices as well. This would suggest that it is possible that things like webcams, microphones, printers, etc etc etc might be enabled at some point.
Yeah Vuze is buggy. I believe iPodME is free. At least it was when I initially downloaded it.
13 Glaring iPad Shortcomings
http://www.ipadnewsdaily.com/13-glaring-ipad-shortcomings-0716/?option=com_content&view=article&id=0390 (http://www.ipadnewsdaily.com/13-glaring-ipad-shortcomings-0716/?option=com_content&view=article&id=0390)
No USB port!?! No Camers!?!
It's like I am supposed to buy something that is overpriced and deliberately crippled because a lot of people think its COOL? I don't see why they consider it to be cool.
I think the virtual page business is really DUMB. A device that should be able to automatically scroll the words a whatever speed I prefer makes me move my hand to flip pages that aren't there and THAT is supposed to be COOL? That is STUPID!!!
At least this fits in my pocket.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/OpenPMA-0.2-booting.jpg/330px-OpenPMA-0.2-booting.jpg)
I can get a folding USB keyboard for it if I want.
【サンコーレアモノショップ】ＵＳＢ折り畳み式ミニキーボード (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDuDEUzOaQ#)
Now that is COOL!
And I got it off eBay for less than $300 with a 30 gig hard drive. It doesn't play flash either though. LOL
psik
I don't really find the lack of a camera or a USB port to be a big deal. I don't see carrying this out and about like a phone and need to snap pics with it very often. But, I still would guess we will see a camera in the next unit for things like video conferencing. I do wish they would support flash. That is the biggie for me. Could have a bit more storage for the price too.
Quote from: Rico on May 06, 2010, 04:22:18 AM
I don't really find the lack of a camera or a USB port to be a big deal. I don't see carrying this out and about like a phone and need to snap pics with it very often. But, I still would guess we will see a camera in the next unit for things like video conferencing. I do wish they would support flash. That is the biggie for me. Could have a bit more storage for the price too.
Perhaps you don't need to worry about the whole Flash thing for the long term:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/05/02/apple-vs-adobe-is-flash-dying/ (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/05/02/apple-vs-adobe-is-flash-dying/)
I have a feeling HTML5 may come out as the new standard. Even Adobe has promised to put out good HTML5 tools. I understand why they don't want to support flash. As a web developer, I hate flash with a passion.
Quote from: billybob476 on May 06, 2010, 05:59:03 AM
I have a feeling HTML5 may come out as the new standard. Even Adobe has promised to put out good HTML5 tools. I understand why they don't want to support flash. As a web developer, I hate flash with a passion.
Indeed, Steve Jobs is anticipating as well as influencing the direction this technology takes. And being the manufacturer of some of the most popular portable web devices in the world, it would be unwise to bet against him and his ability to move technology his way.
Once www.hulu.com (http://www.hulu.com) gets on board with their iPad App I'm going to be very tempted.
You are going to pay for the hulu subscription?
An iPad might be OK if you can turn it into a netbook.
ClamCase™ the all-in-one keyboard, case and stand for iPad® (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl5QWmhRYSw#)
ROFL
That will probably raise the price from $500 to $700
But I can get a netbook for $350.
psik
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 06, 2010, 07:38:12 AM
But I can get a netbook for $350.
psik
Yeah, but is that netbook as powerful as an iPad? Not really. iPad has better graphics and better CPU.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 06, 2010, 09:04:42 AM
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 06, 2010, 07:38:12 AM
But I can get a netbook for $350.
psik
Yeah, but is that netbook as powerful as an iPad? Not really. iPad has better graphics and better CPU.
King
That's arguable. The iPad has DIFFERENT graphics and a DIFFERENT CPU.
They're different beasts for sifferent purposes.
It always makes me laugh when I read anything which suggests that just because an individual doesn't like something personally, it's therefore 'rubbish' (to use the UK term, Rico ;)) and everyone should share the view.
The iPad looks to be an awesome bit of kit, but it's not for me. I'm sticking with the netbook too.
Yes I enjoy throwing my "rubbish" into the "bin" :)
Frankly, I'd like to have all three things: a solid laptop, a netbook, and a iPad. But, if I only bought two it might be the laptop and iPad right now. For me, the laptop I think will come first.
I was out yesterday and picked up a sony pocket reader for 149 and came home to buy a zune HD or a ipod touch. Went with the touch because of my 360 content. with the 100 bucks off that audible is offering through amazon, I got it for less than 100 with next day shipping.
Not once did I consider getting the iPAD. I think my subconscious has spoken for me. iPAD is a jack of all trades, but a master of none. Everything it offers can be gotten elsewhere, cheaper, and better for what it is. I might get one in the future, but it seems to me that it's more flash than substance.
When I saw that many of my podcasts were also on Zune, it was a no brainer
I'm still leaning toward a Kindle as an ebook reader.
We know what they say about opinions. ;)
The beauty of free market capitalism is the the market will be the ultimate arbiter of a products success. The iPad so far is a huge win and will only grow in popularity although I do enjoy the techie rage rants. :)
I agree Bryan, now that I've seen it in action I think the iPad is great. Great enough for me to get right now? No, but that's just my opinion. If someone gave me one, I'd find many great uses for it.
Yep, I agree with pretty much everyone. Mine was a gift, and it is freaking awesome. I would never (in good conscience anyway with 3 kids and multiple demands on my disposable income) be able to pay for it myself. I do believe though, that the iPad comes the closest to being a convergence device for the features I've mentioned in my previous posts (movies, games, web content, email, books, comics, and to a lesser extent productivity apps) and I think that for those things, the iPad delivers those features as good as or better than any other comparable device out there.
I think a device similar to this is the near perfect design:
(http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/08/27/pc-z1_1.jpg)
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/27/sharp_linux_arm_netbook/ (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/27/sharp_linux_arm_netbook/)
The iPad and the Kindle are too big. That one may be a little too big. The device needs to fit comfortably in a pants pocket.
An automatically scrolling book reader program would be better then the Kindle or the iPad. The book paradigm is obsolete. The words can be BIG so only 3 or 4 fit on a line and the device can scrool them up so no side to side motion with the eyes is necessary.
A little bigger than my Archos PMA400 would be fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_PMA400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_PMA400)
The foldover keyboard would protect the screen when not used and be better than the keyboard screen on the Archos. Everybody's hardware is capable enough so some companies make unreliable junk. It is all about software now.
Has Star Trek helped brainwash people into wanting iPads? LOL
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 08, 2010, 12:56:37 PM
Has Star Trek helped brainwash people into wanting iPads? LOL
Clearly not you...
(or me, come to think of it.)
Quote from: Feathers on May 06, 2010, 09:36:18 AM
The iPad looks to be an awesome bit of kit, but it's not for me. I'm sticking with the netbook too.
ROFL
I remember that use of the word KIT from 30 years ago. I was all excited about an Accuphase E-202 integrated amplifier and was reading lots of different reviews. A British reviewer used that term.
http://www.accuphase.com/e-202_e.htm (http://www.accuphase.com/e-202_e.htm)
I still have the amp. LOL
NO, the iPad doesn't remind me of the Accuphase at all.
psik
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 08, 2010, 12:56:37 PM
Has Star Trek helped brainwash people into wanting iPads? LOL
No, I just don't want a piece of crap like you have pictured. :)
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 08, 2010, 12:56:37 PM
Has Star Trek helped brainwash people into wanting iPads? LOL
I just want a tablet PC.... the iPad happens to be the size I would want...that and I want to be like Mckay, or any other prominent scifi character with a tablet PC thing
Quote from: Bryancd on May 08, 2010, 07:03:49 PM
Quote from: psikeyhackr on May 08, 2010, 12:56:37 PM
Has Star Trek helped brainwash people into wanting iPads? LOL
No, I just don't want a piece of crap like you have pictured. :)
LOL
I was just showing a form factor, I don't give a damn about brands and model. The iPad won't fit in a pocket, doesn't have a USB port and no camera. Apparently the software is implemented better than most other equipment. Macro$cam sucks.
Everything is screwed up for different reasons so everybody has to choose what they dislike the least. But people getting all emotional about this stuff is ridiculous.
http://chucksblog.emc.com/chucks_blog/2010/05/what-ipads-did-to-my-family.html (http://chucksblog.emc.com/chucks_blog/2010/05/what-ipads-did-to-my-family.html)
psik
I'm actually one of those buyers who don't want pocket portable and I don't need a netbook or laptop. The iPad is the internet content mobile browsing experience I want. I don't carry mobile internet devices all day, I'm at my desk and go online via a traditional desktop. Same at home. But if and when I go portable, I want a bigger screen than an iPhone. I was sitting by my pool today thinking how great it would be to have an iPad to surf the web. SOLD.
Well actually if I were to have a scifi themed portable device I would go with Orion's watch thing from Chuck
I had a chance to play with the Ipad twice for some periods of time the last couple of days. It is an impressive machine. It's amazingly fast and for photo apllications, games, movies and music it's really great. As an ereader it sucks. It has the same drawbacks of any backlit device when reading for extended periods of time. Actually it doesn't take very long before it starts bothering my eyes while reading. Surfing the net would be fine because that's a completely different kind of reading but books would be a real burden. Overall though I have to give the device a thumbs up but I probably would not buy one.
Kevin
Is the backlight brightness adjustable? I would think that would help a lot. I'm wondering how many people are buying iPads to read full novels on them even if it can do that. Personally I still like a nice book in my hands, but that's just me.
Quote from: Rico on May 12, 2010, 05:20:41 AM
Is the backlight brightness adjustable? I would think that would help a lot. I'm wondering how many people are buying iPads to read full novels on them even if it can do that. Personally I still like a nice book in my hands, but that's just me.
x2, still love me some real paper. The iPad isn't really designed specifically as an e-reader, it's more of a media device that can be used as an e-reader if you are so inclined. It's more important for the internet/video content to be rich.
Right, I'm still interested in an eReader and the Kindle is still up there in the running.
Quote from: billybob476 on May 12, 2010, 06:35:13 AM
Right, I'm still interested in an eReader and the Kindle is still up there in the running.
For me, I wouldn't buy both, however, and would prefer just to have the iPad and use it as an e-reader regardless of the screen.
I wonder if you can go to say monochrome mode or a different amount of colors on the iPad? I mean you don't really need the full spectrum to read text. Seems like they could easily software in an app. to help with the eReader aspect.
I know a lot of people have sad the contrast on the iPad is amazing so switching to grayscale wouldn't really help much I think.
Quote from: billybob476 on May 12, 2010, 08:31:23 AM
I know a lot of people have sad the contrast on the iPad is amazing so switching to grayscale wouldn't really help much I think.
It's too bad it isn't adjustable some how. Especially for various lighting conditions. Heck, it would even conserve power if you could dim it down.
My iPhone has a brightness control and an ambient light sensor that dims the screen in darkness. I imagine the iPad would have the same.
Quote from: billybob476 on May 12, 2010, 09:04:21 AM
My iPhone has a brightness control and an ambient light sensor that dims the screen in darkness. I imagine the iPad would have the same.
Anyway to manually adjust it yourself on the iPhone or is it all automatic?
Well, it looks like it is an easy matter to adjust the brightness on the iPad in Settings. Here you go:
How to adjust iPad brightness
How to change iPad brightness
* First, enter the iPad settings by tapping the settings icon. It's the icon with the gears.
* The Brightness setting is between Notifications and Picture Frame. Simply tap where it says Brightness & Wallpaper to open up the settings.
* The slider will control the brightness of the iPad's screen. Move the slider to the left with your finger to decrease the brightness and move the slider to the right to make the iPad's screen brighter.
* The Auto-Brightness is a neat feature that will adjust the brightness based on the lightning in the room. It can be hard to tell if this feature is working, but it is easier to tell if you already have the brightness set low.
http://www.examiner.com/x-13879-iPhone-Examiner~y2010m4d7-How-to-adjust-iPad-brightness (http://www.examiner.com/x-13879-iPhone-Examiner~y2010m4d7-How-to-adjust-iPad-brightness)
Right, the same on the iPhone (just no 'wallpaper' options)
the problem is that some apps don't allow you to adjust settings while they are running...and you cant switch to desktop without closing an active app. Software update to allow multitasking is coming though. My comic reader has a built in brightness control, as does iBook Reader
Oh and ipodme is a great converter...thanks billybob for the awesome recommendation
Glad to be of service.
I would have responded sooner but I have been on the road for the last ten hours. The Ipad ebook application lets you adjust brightness without going into settings. I tried reading at several levels and it is still distracting. Probably the biggest distraction is the pixelation of etext. The pixelation on pictures and movies is fantastic but on ebooks not. Anyone even thinking about an Ipad mainly for reading really needs to spend some time with the device because ultimately you will be disappointed. Everything else is pretty cool though. I just cannot think of a practical reason to spend $500 plus for one when I already have devices that do as good and in some cases better job of the Ipad features.
Kevin
Pixelation?!?! Really? At the resolution the iPad is capable of? I played with one in a Best Buy and ran through various apps. and didn't notice that at all. But as others have mentioned, being an eReader is just one of the functions of the iPad. If that's all you really need, then it isn't for you.
Quote from: Rico on May 13, 2010, 05:21:50 AM
Pixelation?!?! Really? At the resolution the iPad is capable of? I played with one in a Best Buy and ran through various apps. and didn't notice that at all. But as others have mentioned, being an eReader is just one of the functions of the iPad. If that's all you really need, then it isn't for you.
Yes...At the font size I would need to be able to read comfortably I could see every pixel. Even at the smaller font sizes I could could see pixelation but not as easily.
Kevin
Maybe it's an eye/vision thing. This thing basically has a computer screen. Can I see some pixels in text on a computer screen - yes. Does it bother my ability to read it - nope.
i hate it when i see pixelation
Quote from: Rico on May 13, 2010, 09:46:20 AM
Maybe it's an eye/vision thing. This thing basically has a computer screen. Can I see some pixels in text on a computer screen - yes. Does it bother my ability to read it - nope.
I also can see pixels in text when I surf the web on a PC (but actually not as noticeable as it is on the Ipad) and it does not bother me so much because the way you read the web (constantly moving around) is completely different than the way you read books. I do not see the Ipad as being useful for long periods of reading any more than I see an Iphone useful to do so. Short periods would be fine but it does really bother my eyes a LOT when reading for extended periods. It cannot compare to the eink screen on my nook. I can read for hours (literally) without any problems.
But, like I said the other applications of the Ipad are awesome!! I think it's an incredible device but without much purpose for my life.
Kevin
Frankly, I can't really judge reading for long periods on the iPad based on playing with it in a store for a short time. But I have read very long stories at my computer and not had an issue with that. Personally I wouldn't probably use it for reading a novel - or any eReader at this time. Not really against them or anything, I just see a lot of change going on in this tech space in the next few years. Plus, I still like my ink and paper books too much I think. ;)
I've had eReader software on my last few hendheld devices (for the last five to ten years) but the books I'll use with it are very limited - or perhaps throw-away is a better term - since I have no confidence that the format they are in will be supported in the long term.
I'm also not going to jump on any single reading device format at the moment until things settle down over the next few years (but I don't have any shelf space left either so this gives me a bit of a problem...).
Quote from: Feathers on May 14, 2010, 03:19:53 AM
I've had eReader software on my last few hendheld devices (for the last five to ten years) but the books I'll use with it are very limited - or perhaps throw-away is a better term - since I have no confidence that the format they are in will be supported in the long term.
I'm also not going to jump on any single reading device format at the moment until things settle down over the next few years (but I don't have any shelf space left either so this gives me a bit of a problem...).
Yeah, that is why I just deal with text files. I convert whatever I get to text files. With so much memory so cheap what does compression matter?
The WiFi only iPad just got a little bit more attractive:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/latest-iphone-beta-hints-at-att-tethering-coming-soon.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/latest-iphone-beta-hints-at-att-tethering-coming-soon.ars)
(http://static.arstechnica.com/2010/05/19/tethering_iPhone4_att_ars.jpg)
It appears the next iPhone software update could finally include tethering, which to my understanding would basically allow the iPhone to function as a portable WiFi hotspot. It would be pretty nice to be able to use the internet functions of my iPad wherever I go via my iPhone.
Would it do it via Bluetooth or does it have to be physically attached to the iPad?
It is supposed to support both Bluetooth and USB connections. I do not know if it actually turns your iPhone into a Wifi hotspot.
I would really be surprised if Apple supported something that would render the 3G IPad unnecessary. How much you want to bet that the IPad does not support BT Networking stack.
Quote from: RickPeete on May 21, 2010, 01:31:13 PM
It is supposed to support both Bluetooth and USB connections. I do not know if it actually turns your iPhone into a Wifi hotspot.
I would really be surprised if Apple supported something that would render the 3G IPad unnecessary. How much you want to bet that the IPad does not support BT Networking stack.
Well, you'd still have to have an iPhone. I don't think that everyone who has an iPad has one. And apple has always supported tethering...it's AT&T that has been the problem. People that have "jailbroken" their iPhones have been tethering for years now with carriers that support it.
Actually I could see this as also boosting iPhone sales too. How long before they offer an iPad/iPhone package purchase deal? :)
Or perhaps a college bundle? Buy a MacBook and get an IPad for ebooks and class notetaking (and entertainment).
Between the Kindle App and the iBookstore, students might be buying IPads in order to get their textbooks electronically at reduced prices....
The decline of the paper book is here...
I told you guys, Apple rules. :)
I have heard that it is AT&T putting the kibosh on tethering with the iPhone. I would love to be able to tether my netbook to my iPhone.
I'd say just give it time. In the future these exclusive deals will be fading away.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on May 21, 2010, 01:44:01 PM
...it's AT&T that has been the problem. People that have "jailbroken" their iPhones have been tethering for years now with carriers that support it.
If the carrier supports it, there's no need to jailbreak. Tethering has been a supported iPhone option over here for months.
Hey - new iPad question. How warm/hot does it get when sitting in your lap awhile?
Mine hardly gets warm at all. I haven't noticed it anyway, especially through the case.
There are no heat issues with the IPad. I did notice that if it gets too hot sitting in the sun or your car, it will shut off until the device cools down. But that makes sense cuz external heat can damage or weaken the components.
It sounds like it's better than the iPhone then, presumably due to the bigger casing giving a littlr more room for components.
The iPhone (or at least mine) tends to heat up when passing a lot of data about or on a battery charge. Nothing too bad but it definately warms the hands!
Nice! Thanks for the info guys.
If you bought one you could find all this out for yourself...
Mrs. Rico is miles away, she'll never know :)
*Rapidly checks 'Friends Online' indication*
Quote from: Feathers on May 24, 2010, 09:34:20 AM
If you bought one you could find all this out for yourself...
Mrs. Rico is miles away, she'll never know :)
*Rapidly checks 'Friends Online' indication*
Don't tempt me!
Actually, as you drive down I-90 on your way towards I-294, you pass right by the Schaumburg Apple Store in the Woodfield Mall.
Just sayin.... ;)
Quote from: RickPeete on May 24, 2010, 09:59:50 AM
Actually, as you drive down I-90 on your way towards I-294, you pass right by the Schaumburg Apple Store in the Woodfield Mall.
Just sayin.... ;)
Yeah, I've seen that mall. Plus they have them at the local Best Buy here too. Need an AC unit for the apt. first!
EBay/Craigslist might a good bet for the A/C unit...,
Quote from: Feathers on May 24, 2010, 09:07:51 AM
It sounds like it's better than the iPhone then, presumably due to the bigger casing giving a littlr more room for components.
The iPhone (or at least mine) tends to heat up when passing a lot of data about or on a battery charge. Nothing too bad but it definately warms the hands!
That must be the "hand warmer" app. ;)
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/05/24/apple-the-new-comics-censors/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/05/24/apple-the-new-comics-censors/)
Apple – The New Comics Censors
Submitted by Rich Johnston on May 24, 2010 – 5:07 pm (8) comments
Some people who've never looked the word up in the dictionary believe that "censorship" can only come from the government or a state body. Not from a business or an individual. They are wrong.
Of course some people believe that censorship must, by its very nature, be always bad. They are also wrong, but that's more of a subjective viewpoint and not relevant today. Back to the government/non-government thing.
At the Prism website, which celebrates and supports lesbians gays and transgendered in comics, both characters and creators, Prism founding president, Charles "Zan" Christensen has decided to take on Apple and the future of digital comics.
Because while many in comics see the iPad as a new frontier to be conquered and claimed, there are signs that something about the Apple is rotten.
Charles looks at the Apple banning of Jesus Hates Zombies from the Comixology App on the iPhone, currently a bestselling comic on the Android phone, quoting creator Stephen Lindsay saying "Jesus Hates Zombies doesn't involve any sex whatsoever. None. It has violence and swearing, but that's because it's a mature readers horror comedy. But the violence isn't even intense. And being a black and white comic, there's zero red blood, which means any gore is dramatically cut down."
And while it mostly seems that Apple is most concerned with pornography on Apple products, when it comes to gay or lesbian material, they seem to get very concerned indeed. Christensen sites Tom Boulden's The Importance Of Being Earnest chopped for minor scenes with naked men kissing and cuddling without any graphic nudity. And Zesty from Yaoi Press featured lesbian scenes without any nudity, simply some rather tame kissing and cuddling.
That too received the axe from Apple. Although these books have found a way onto the device through the Kindle App which has much less content restrictions.
Nevertheless, Kindle aside, this kind of action is reminiscent of the Ratings War of the eighties where Diamond Comics Distribution attempted to create a rating level for all direct market comics, and the rejection of titles such as Miracleman #9. That failed mostly, but with Apple the system is already in place and if comics want to play in what is increasingly becoming the biggest game in town, they've got play by these rules.
So yes. Censorship. How do you like them apples?
Ahh the censorship war. I see it no matter what forum, no matter what site, no matter what company, no matter what or where, it exists. None of what you shared surprises me. Apple, I will agree, has some of the weirdest restrictions I've seen from a major company, its not totally unheard of.
So is it a bad thing? I'm kinda on the fence on this one atm.
King
I just don't see any reason for blocking content that is not illegal in a device that you own. They are either a business or the morality police. You can't be both, the tax codes don't like that.
If they want to show the world according to Apple, that's fine, but don't block content and not inform the people buying your product that you aren't going to allow certain things.
Quote from: Rico on January 28, 2010, 05:17:03 AM
I'm really wondering how people already with iPhones and paying for those already will take to this. Seems like a duplication of many things for them. I think the product looks pretty neat and I'm tempted right now since I don't have an iPhone - plus Lynn has wanted some type of eBook reader. Maybe I'll get her one and surprise her (shush - don't tell). ;)
Hey, I think that would be great! Although Eric wouldn't let me hear the end of it.
She's back! ;)
Quote from: Just X on May 26, 2010, 11:46:40 AM
I just don't see any reason for blocking content that is not illegal in a device that you own. They are either a business or the morality police. You can't be both, the tax codes don't like that.
If they want to show the world according to Apple, that's fine, but don't block content and not inform the people buying your product that you aren't going to allow certain things.
They are not blocking content, they are not allowing the content on an application. You can still go online with an iPhone or iPad and look at whatever floats your boat.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 26, 2010, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: Just X on May 26, 2010, 11:46:40 AM
I just don't see any reason for blocking content that is not illegal in a device that you own. They are either a business or the morality police. You can't be both, the tax codes don't like that.
If they want to show the world according to Apple, that's fine, but don't block content and not inform the people buying your product that you aren't going to allow certain things.
They are not blocking content, they are not allowing the content on an application. You can still go online with an iPhone or iPad and look at whatever floats your boat.
Is there really a difference? They are censoring a subject that is will only be accessed by the people paying money to access it.
Quote from: Just X on May 26, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
Is there really a difference?
Yes. Apple doesn't care what content you look at on the internet, however as a business they need to be aware of the content they tacitly support via there applications. They have a corporate image and reputation which is at their discretion to promote and manage.
It's nice to know that gay people cuddling is against the corporate image of Apple. Gives me more than enough reason to take my money else where. If all cuddling was banned, I wouldn't have an argument, but as it stands, their image and reputation comes off as bigoted.
I'm not going to suggest that people boycott Apple or anything like that, but it's not something that I can support.
Not that I want to open this up even more, but what are you guys talking about? Is this an app. or just web surfing?
P.S. Just a thought, but just about every company censors things in some way. Basically, they don't want to get sued. Such as, I gave little Johnny an iPad and look at this stuff you let him do with it. Just an idea.
Quote from: Rico on May 27, 2010, 05:09:16 AM
Not that I want to open this up even more, but what are you guys talking about? Is this an app. or just web surfing?
P.S. Just a thought, but just about every company censors things in some way. Basically, they don't want to get sued. Such as, I gave little Johnny an iPad and look at this stuff you let him do with it. Just an idea.
It's an iPhone application for reading web comics.
And Chris, if you feel that way, knock yourself out. I no way feel this is "anti-gay" or "anti-cuddling". If a comany markets and sell's a product, they have every right to control how that product is used. If you don't like it, but anlternative product. Simple free market.
Ahh, well if it's an App. I see no problem in it at all. Apple keeps those Apps. on a pretty tight leash and they have never been as open a platform as say a PC. That just goes with the territory. I don't see anything new in this. Again, I think they just are protecting themselves - to a degree. The rest is marketing and so on.
Surely any company has a right to decide what it does and doesn't want to sell? All companies do it - Ford sells cars and McDonalds sells...meat products (:)). I haven't seen either being forced to sell the products of the other.
Equally, individuals have the right to buy (or not) products from whomsoever they choose to do business with. Anyone can agree or disagree with a company's (or another individuals) policy but I don't believe they have any right to go any further than that.
If I can decide what Apple 'ought' to sell, presumably they have the reciprocal right to decide what I 'ought' to buy? ;)
Quote from: Feathers on May 27, 2010, 05:44:09 AM
Surely any company has a right to decide what it does and doesn't want to sell? All companies do it - Ford sells cars and McDonalds sells...meat products (:)). I haven't seen either being forced to sell the products of the other.
Equally, individuals have the right to buy (or not) products from whomsoever they choose to do business with. Anyone can agree or disagree with a company's (or another individuals) policy but I don't believe they have any right to go any further than that.
If I can decide what Apple 'ought' to sell, presumably they have the reciprocal right to decide what I 'ought' to buy? ;)
Yes they can decide what to sell. They are selling the app, but censoring specific content on that app that doesn't on the surface violate their standards.
They are allowing Walking Dead. A great comic, but one that is heavy in gore, murder, rape, the murder of infants, dismemberment, and a host of other things. Yet same sex cuddling gets banned?
If I buy a Kindle, I don't want to be told one day "oh we decided to not let you read Mark Twain books or access any books with content that is above pg-13."
As Bryan pointed out, they aren't censoring the web. That's nice to know that they are just specifically targeting a specific subject and allowing hetero version of the same stuff to still happen.
What if they decide that they want to expand that exclusion and ban images of mixed couples or minorities in their app content? Sure, they have a right to do it, but having a right does not make it right.
It's a door that I don't think should be opened because it becomes too easy to accept and add more things to the banned list without cause. The problem that I've seen with things like this is that people don't have a problem with things because it doesn't seem to affect them and when it gets to a point where it does affect you, it's too late.
I've never been comfortable with standing back and ignoring something because it didn't affect me personally.
Again, they are NOT censoring what you can view at your discretion. They are making a choice as to what they allow on a product that they license and sell. They can't prevent you from looking at any image or content you want, but they don't have to make their own applications open to everything you may want to look at it.
And I am unclear how you know that "app that doesn't on the surface violate their standards." Are you privy to what Apple's "standards" are?
Quote from: Bryancd on May 27, 2010, 06:46:00 AMAre you privy to what Apple's "standards" are?
That's a loaded question...a lot of developers would LOVE to talk to anyone who knows what Apple's standards are!
Like I said earlier - every company censors. Look at TV, movies, etc. Violence is pretty raw these days, but sex - nope. For example, an R rated movie on TV will be censored but that doesn't make me stop watching FOX, or ABC, etc. I just watch those types of movies either at the theater or Netflix or another way. Language standards have changed too overtime. I get what you are saying Chris, but all places do this to some degree. Sadly, that's just the way it works. There are certainly other ways to view these comics, just not on an iPad. Just like certain stuff isn't shown on TV. Same thing.
As far as I can tell, the comics app that I use (cloudreader) is completely open and as long as you have purchased or otherwise obtained a digital file in a format that is supported by the iPad, you can put it on the device and view it. I think the Comixology app has a digital store that this particular book was "banned" from. I have a hard time supporting censorship of any kind as well, but acknowledge the arguments that everyone has made about the rights of Apple to control what is available to be purchased through their distribution system. If this was a product that advocated something patently offensive to all (use your imagination I have no desire to offend sensibilities here) then we would most likely be less apt to complain. It's hard to decide what's the right move here. If Apple started making demands of Netflix, for example, forcing them to take down or remove certain content because it didn't fit within Apple's standards of appropriateness, then I would probably react with anger and frustration as well. Fortunately, we still live in a society where there's a free market, with many options available for consuming media and entertainment, and Apple isn't (yet) the only source for this type of material.
Of course Just X and everyone else has the equal right to express their disdain and vote with their checkbooks...I believe he has said elsewhere in this thread that this product is not for him anyway. For me the iPad is open enough of a platform that I can watch or read absolutely anything and everything I want (except Flash heh,) whether I buy it from the Apple store, through an app, or through some other source. I won't be sending mine back in protest.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 26, 2010, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Just X on May 26, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
Is there really a difference?
Yes. Apple doesn't care what content you look at on the internet, however as a business they need to be aware of the content they tacitly support via there applications. They have a corporate image and reputation which is at their discretion to promote and manage.
Let's see.
They allow comics with couples cuddling? Check. That seems to be something within their standards.
Gay couples cuddling? Nope.
So if comics with cuddling is allowed and comics with gay cuddling isn't allowed, that tells me that the problem is with the gay and not the cuddling. I'm not suggesting that gay is against their rules, but without knowing their secret standards, it looks that way.
Amazon did something similar when they removed the GLT books a few months ago (And some books that weren't) and claimed that it was due to computer error.
Quote from: Rico on May 27, 2010, 07:15:11 AM
Like I said earlier - every company censors. Look at TV, movies, etc. Violence is pretty raw these days, but sex - nope. For example, an R rated movie on TV will be censored but that doesn't make me stop watching FOX, or ABC, etc. I just watch those types of movies either at the theater or Netflix or another way. Language standards have changed too overtime. I get what you are saying Chris, but all places do this to some degree. Sadly, that's just the way it works. There are certainly other ways to view these comics, just not on an iPad. Just like certain stuff isn't shown on TV. Same thing.
I completely agree that every company has a right to censor. I'm just not comfortable with them targeting specific lifestyles to censor. That's what I don't agree with.
So you are making both a judgement call about the content and then making assumptions about their motives? I see... :ohwell
Quote from: Just X on May 27, 2010, 01:56:35 PM
I completely agree that every company has a right to censor. I'm just not comfortable with them targeting specific lifestyles to censor. That's what I don't agree with.
Thanks buddy for the support.
If this comic app banned/censored any comic books that had black people in them.. folks would be up in arms.. because it's a "gay" think it's okay, they have to right to sell/distribute what they want.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 27, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
So you are making both a judgement call about the content and then making assumptions about their motives? I see... :ohwell
Did you read the article at all? Read it then get back to me.
Quote from: Just X on May 27, 2010, 06:06:40 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on May 27, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
So you are making both a judgement call about the content and then making assumptions about their motives? I see... :ohwell
Did you read the article at all? Read it then get back to me.
I did, a few times, and I feel the author is drawing some very specific conclusion NOT based on any real understanding as to why the action was taken and neither do you. I assume you also don't shop at Amazon or WalMart as their policies towards content are very well known.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 27, 2010, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Just X on May 27, 2010, 06:06:40 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on May 27, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
So you are making both a judgement call about the content and then making assumptions about their motives? I see... :ohwell
Did you read the article at all? Read it then get back to me.
I did, a few times, and I feel the author is drawing some very specific conclusion NOT based on any real understanding as to why the action was taken and neither do you. I assume you also don't shop at Amazon or WalMart as their policies towards content are very well known.
Yep, you assume correctly. I haven't shopped at Walmart in the last 15 or so years.
As for the why it was done ... nope we don't know exactly why.
However, I was once told by a very wise person. "It's hard for those that haven't been persecuted or their rights denied to see when it is happening in others are be concerned about it."
Until you become a target of something, I guess it's harder for someone to see others as a target. When your lifestyle or rights aren't being denied, I can see how it would be easy for someone to dismiss something as coincidence.
While, I'm not at all a fan of censorship, frankly Apple can do whatever they want. I find it not so much a problem with them as a company but as a problem with the average person out there on the street. They are catering to the majority. And sadly, the majority has a narrow view of things. While it would be great if they could more open and progressive, that just isn't the way the world works right now. I mean look at the whole gay marriage thing (not to go off on a tangent). Many people are still living in the middle ages and would love to burn people at the stake for certain life styles or views. For me, they can't change the way I think or feel - and that's what really matters.
Yep, they certainly have been at the forefront of opposing euqal rights for gay couples....
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10074793-37.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10074793-37.html)
"Apple has joined Google in publicly opposing a California ballot initiative that would deny marriage rights to same-sex couples.
The company announced Friday that it would donate $100,000 to the No on Prop 8 campaign, which opposes a measure to ban gay marriage that California voters will consider a week from Tuesday. Google has also spoken out against the ballot measure.
"Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees' same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a person's fundamental rights--including the right to marry--should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8," the company said in a statement posted to the Hot News section of its Web site."
And here is a much more fair and balanced article regarding Apple's content restrictions and the issue's they face being a provider of content as well as an advocate for free speech. They have to manage a difficult situation. They are certainly not denying anyone their rights.
http://prismcomics.org/display.php?id=1858 (http://prismcomics.org/display.php?id=1858)
I think what is clear is that any media company will have to walk a fine line between freedom of speech and expression, which is what this is about, not denial of rights, Chris, and the potential mainstream backlash, potential litigation, and damage to their shareholders. It's not going to be perfect, someone, some group, some creative peice willl likely be dissapointed, but I think it's clear that not everything is so cut and dry.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 28, 2010, 05:44:59 AM
I think what is clear is that any media company will have to walk a fine line between freedom of speech and expression, which is what this is about, not denial of rights, Chris, and the potential mainstream backlash, potential litigation, and damage to their shareholders. It's not going to be perfect, someone, some group, some creative peice willl likely be dissapointed, but I think it's clear that not everything is so cut and dry.
It's nice to see that they donated. It's not nice to see, thanks to your link, what cause things to get banned in some cases. I would love to have the ability to clack it up to business being business, but in this world you can't. Anyone that has fought for someone's rights quickly learn that there is no coincidence. It doesn't matter what standard that Apple used to ban the gay content, merely that they did ban it. Instead of letting the materials speak for themselves, they buried it. Was it because they caved to earlier complain about gay material? Was it because they wanted to please the majority at the expense of the minority? I have no clue, but the person inside me that wants his children to grow up in a world were everyone can be treated with equal respect, tells me that sometimes the act is more damaging that the reasoning behind the act.
They allow Kick Ass, but banned a book with two dudes kissing. I guess it's okay to have a minor tortured by attaching jumper cables to their crotch, having a preteen dismember people, and a kid pretend that he's gay to get the girl, but two shirtless dude cross the line?
It doesn't have to be cut and dry ... but ... could they try to make it a little less targeted?
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 06:25:44 AM
It doesn't have to be cut and dry ... but ... could they try to make it a little less targeted?
Well, before we start saying that gay sexual content is "targeted" we need to also consider what kinds of heterosexual content is also not allowed. Clearly there is, and in my mind should be, a limit to the amount of sexually provocative, gay or hetero, material, violent images, ect. that a public company is going to allow to be accessed using their products. I'm not even a parent, but I would certainly want to know what my child could gain access to using a product I might purchase from Apple. Now, we could go around and around trying to use the circular argument of "well, they allow this BUT not this!" and never get anywhere. What's offensive to one person may be someone else's high art.
Apple is a business which sells consumer products. They are not a government. They are not arbiters of public morality, they are simply a consumer products company, one that has taken a public stance supporting gay rights. When they make a decision to not allow sexually graphic images to be accessed using one of their applications, gay or straight, they are simply making a business decision to protect themselves from consumer backlash, they are not passing judgement on anyones lifestyle. It's unfortunate that's the case and we are not more tolerant a society, but it is who we are as a Nation right now. And gay or straight, I think there is a lot of perverse sexual content out there I think has no place in my world and I personally will never defend it. I will, however, never fight against it's right to exist.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 28, 2010, 08:26:32 AM
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 06:25:44 AM
It doesn't have to be cut and dry ... but ... could they try to make it a little less targeted?
Well, before we start saying that gay sexual content is "targeted" we need to also consider what kinds of heterosexual content is also not allowed. Clearly there is, and in my mind should be, a limit to the amount of sexually provocative, gay or hetero, material, violent images, ect. that a public company is going to allow to be accessed using their products. I'm not even a parent, but I would certainly want to know what my child could gain access to using a product I might purchase from Apple. Now, we could go around and around trying to use the circular argument of "well, they allow this BUT not this!" and never get anywhere. What's offensive to one person may be someone else's high art.
Apple is a business which sells consumer products. They are not a government. They are not arbiters of public morality, they are simply a consumer products company, one that has taken a public stance supporting gay rights. When they make a decision to not allow sexually graphic images to be accessed using one of their applications, gay or straight, they are simply making a business decision to protect themselves from consumer backlash, they are not passing judgement on anyones lifestyle. It's unfortunate that's the case and we are not more tolerant a society, but it is who we are as a Nation right now. And gay or straight, I think there is a lot of perverse sexual content out there I think has no place in my world and I personally will never defend it. I will, however, never fight against it's right to exist.
From the link you posted, we saw exactly what they didn't like about at least one of those products.
As a parent, and I won't pretend to speak for other parents, it's not Apple's job to censor what my child sees.That's my job. I don't need or want Apple to do my job for me.
So the don't like gay people kissing. Would you take a stand if they decided that dudes in spandex is too provocative and then remove any books with those images?
Also look at those images, they aren't graphic at all.
Here is the funny part in your stance. These are items that are contained within apps, but they have no problems allowing Netflix content through the netflix app. I think the Story of O is still playing on the app.
So one app can show in sound and visuals, the Story of O, but a comic has to black bar what won't even count as r rated materials?
By censoring things, they have taken a stance as arbiters or public morality, you can disagree with that, but how can you censor things without taking that stance?
I also don't agree with your ideas that companies should have limits. What happens if your computer or internet company decides to block sites that you like because they have some perceived issue? Companies should not have that sort of power. Leave the censoring to the government, parents, and personal judgement.
I'm not sure what the big deal is here. A company, or business, has the right to determine who will buy their product and what it will do. If a restaurant owner has a sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" then they can can refuse to serve you. You do not have a "right" that supercedes their rights. That is exactly what I read in these posts is people wanting their "supposed" rights be imposed on Apple. It's their product and they can do what they want with it. You can call it censorship and I call it business. The Bill of Rights does not give you the "right" to force your supposed rights on other people or even businesses. In fact this issue is not even addressed. If you don't like Apple's decision then don't support them in purchasing their products. It's that simple. And if you really have to have that app on your Ipad then softroot the darn thing and bypass Apple altogether!
Kevin
Actually, yes, I think the images shown in that link are graphic and would be so if they depicted a hetrosexual couple as well. I personally don't take issue with them, but other people very well may. And I strongly disagree that it's a corporations responsibility to be an advocate for or against accpeted societal moral views. I especially feel that way about the governmwent, I can believe you think that's where censorship should come from. That's even worse than corporations doing it.
And in regards to NetFlix, this simply proves my point that the ability or even dseire to limit content won't always be clear or make sense and will never maike everyone happy, but just as I don't deny the right of anyone to view whatever they wish, I also don't deny a corporations right to control who their products are used. You can judge them if you wish, I have a more pragmatic view.
Oh, and well said, Kevin. :)
Ok, can we answer 1 question that has been bugging me since this conversation started? Do we know 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt that Apple "axed" the comics in question because they depicted one or more gay sexual scenes? Is this confirmed without the "I suspect it is" sort of deal?
Because unless that is a yes, this whole conversation is rather moot. For all we know, Apple just didn't like the colors used in the comic and found that highly offensive to their style of comic-coloring tastes.
Seriously. It could be. :P
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 28, 2010, 09:45:48 AM
Ok, can we answer 1 question that has been bugging me since this conversation started? Do we know 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt that Apple "axed" the comics in question because they depicted one or more gay sexual scenes? Is this confirmed without the "I suspect it is" sort of deal?
Because unless that is a yes, this whole conversation is rather moot. For all we know, Apple just didn't like the colors used in the comic and found that highly offensive to their style of comic-coloring tastes.
Seriously. It could be. :P
King
What we know is that they would not allow the comic. The comic was then resubmitted with black bars covering certain gay images and then it was approved.
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 28, 2010, 09:45:48 AM
Ok, can we answer 1 question that has been bugging me since this conversation started? Do we know 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt that Apple "axed" the comics in question because they depicted one or more gay sexual scenes? Is this confirmed without the "I suspect it is" sort of deal?
Because unless that is a yes, this whole conversation is rather moot. For all we know, Apple just didn't like the colors used in the comic and found that highly offensive to their style of comic-coloring tastes.
Seriously. It could be. :P
King
What we know is that they would not allow the comic. The comic was then resubmitted with black bars covering certain gay images and then it was approved.
Hmm. Thank you Just X.
King
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 28, 2010, 09:45:48 AM
Ok, can we answer 1 question that has been bugging me since this conversation started? Do we know 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt that Apple "axed" the comics in question because they depicted one or more gay sexual scenes? Is this confirmed without the "I suspect it is" sort of deal?
Because unless that is a yes, this whole conversation is rather moot. For all we know, Apple just didn't like the colors used in the comic and found that highly offensive to their style of comic-coloring tastes.
Seriously. It could be. :P
King
What we know is that they would not allow the comic. The comic was then resubmitted with black bars covering certain gay images and then it was approved.
It wasn't the 'gay" images it was the sexual images.
Which makes me inclined to think it was the implied sexual act itself, not the fact that the characters were both men which was the issue.
Apple is not anti-gay, they are anti-porn.
Chris if you don't consider those images explicit I have to wonder how far an artist would have to go to earn that tag from you. Full frontal? Penetration? Where's the line drawn? I guarantee you if my five year old daughter stumbled on those images while using my iPad not only would my wife kill me, I would be pretty darn upset myself. Regardless of those acts being depicted between two men, two women, or a man and a woman, they are explicit in my opinion. Until there are adequate safeguards that indicate to parents that certain content in an app is explicit and inappropriate for people of a certain age, I am completely on board with Apple not allowing porn in their apps.
I just went back to look at the actual uncensored comic again it is EXTREMELY graphic. The edits Apple requested didn't alter the fact that it involved two men and the implication is still the same but without the nudity and graphic sexual depictions. If I sent those comic frame images around my office in an e-mail, I could loose my job.
Getting back to actual iPad news:
Apple's iPad big in Japan
By Prince McLean
Published: 09:40 PM EST
Related AppleInsider articles:
iPad 3G is SIM-locked to Softbank Mobile...
Apple iPhone takes 72% of Japanese smartphone...
Barnes & Noble announces intent to release...
Nintendo admits 'dark' future if it can't...
iPhone helps keep Softbank competitive,...
The launch of Apple's iPad in Asia is "generating a level of hype and excitement rarely seen these days for a new electronics product in this gadget-loving nation," according to reports from Japan on today's launch.
An article by the Wall Street Journal detailed the "frenzy" of the iPad's Japanese launch, where it was met by lines of buyers, some of whom had camped out for days.
Softbank, the exclusive carrier of the 3G iPad in Japan, stopped taking reservations after just three days in a climate where a variety of magazines ran cover stories about the iPad launch.
"Softbank says it is under strict orders from Apple not to disclose how many reservations it has accepted or how many will be distributed Friday," the report said. "It wouldn't even disclose whether consumers could buy the iPad on Friday without a reservation."
A report on the launch by the New York Times noted the parallel success of previous Apple launches. The iPod continues to dominate the music player market and the iPhone has become wildly successful in the country, citing MM Research Institute data showing that Apple has 72 share of Japan's smartphone market.
The Times said 1200 people had lined up at the Apple Store in central Tokyo for the launch of iPad.
Japanese content for iPad
It's not just consumers who are interested in the iPad launch. The Wall Street Journal said Japanese game developer Konami Digital Entertainment, "once solely focused on creating games for dedicated consoles like the Wii from Nintendo and more recently, for cellphones" has released Metal Gear Solid Touch for iPad. Capcom similarly says it will reformat BioHazard 4 for iPad.
"Japan's publishers, which have long been cautious in moving online," the report noted, "are racing to offer their titles on the iPad." It cited Shufunotomo, a major women's magazine, as saying it will open an electronic bookstore for iPad with about 50 magazines and books. The report also noted Yahoo Japan plans to offer 100 free comics for iPad users.
Apple's new tablet isn't without competition however; It noted that Asahi Shimbun, Japan's second-largest newspaper, reported Thursday that it would join forces with Sony's e-reader content platform, publisher Toppan Printing, and the cellphone carrier KDDI, a competitor of Apple's exclusive Japanese mobile partner Softbank.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 28, 2010, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on May 28, 2010, 09:45:48 AM
Ok, can we answer 1 question that has been bugging me since this conversation started? Do we know 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt that Apple "axed" the comics in question because they depicted one or more gay sexual scenes? Is this confirmed without the "I suspect it is" sort of deal?
Because unless that is a yes, this whole conversation is rather moot. For all we know, Apple just didn't like the colors used in the comic and found that highly offensive to their style of comic-coloring tastes.
Seriously. It could be. :P
King
What we know is that they would not allow the comic. The comic was then resubmitted with black bars covering certain gay images and then it was approved.
It wasn't the 'gay" images it was the sexual images.
Which makes me inclined to think it was the implied sexual act itself, not the fact that the characters were both men which was the issue.
Apple is not anti-gay, they are anti-porn.
What about the picture with the jumper cables on the guy's crotch that they did allow?
I think that's where well differ. We live in a place were violence and mutilated bodies are cool to show even on network television, but implied sex is taboo.
Would I agree that some of the images are close to a line? No. You can see more on night time and daytime television without a problem. I hardly see those images as porn, but if my own 5 year old daughter could surf the iTunes library, find said material, pay for it, then then down load it, we would have to have a chat about the images but I'd actually be proud of her ingenuity.
If I had said comic on my what ever device and she stumbled across it, that would be my fault. I think that I'm smart enough to not need Apple to monitor content for me. In fact, couldn't they just give it an explicit label and prevent minors from buying it?
What I find the most humorous about the whole idea of Apple censoring is that you can access the web. Do you honestly think that some horny kid is going to jump to spend their cash on the comic just for the images when they can use the internet unfiltered to get actual porn?
I think I understand what you mean, but it's not that logical to me.
Just for the record, I do think that there is a huge difference between art and graphic porn. I also don't agree with them covering the statue David and saying it's obscene while Nat Geo can show topless women of Africa and people don't bat an eye.
Okay, I found this through the like that Bryan provided and it's quite entertaining.
http://gawker.com/5539717/ (http://gawker.com/5539717/)
Quote from: Just X on May 28, 2010, 01:19:39 PM
Okay, I found this through the like that Bryan provided and it's quite entertaining.
http://gawker.com/5539717/ (http://gawker.com/5539717/)
That's awesome. Steve jobs is a man of great hubris and doesn't suffer fools lightly. He has the entire personal portable technology market by the short and curly's and knows it and will leverage it and beat anyone who stands in his way into submission. Genius is often like that. May not be very chill, bit that's the guy I want running the company I own stock in. He who has the most gold makes the rules. The best is look what time these e-mails took place. Even on West Coast Time, Steve was up late and fighting on the internet. Classic.
Hold on
2 million iPads sold so far. Amazing.
Check this out! Now I want one for the new car!
iPad in Car, Pt. 3, First Ever, SoundMan Car Audio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-k2_N5XPaU#)
Those guys are very talented and creative crafstmen! Not sure I would be comfortable with having the Ipad so easily removable. Seems like it's a good setup for a smash and grab.
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on June 06, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
Those guys are very talented and creative crafstmen! Not sure I would be comfortable with having the Ipad so easily removable. Seems like it's a good setup for a smash and grab.
Kevin
He mentions in the video of how he wanted to have it easily removable (for him - not thieves). So I don't think he leaves it in the car much.
It does look cool but would it be legal?
Having something so capable of displaying video within the field of view of the driver seems a little...dangerous to me. Or is it one of those areas of law where it's fine to have the facility as long as it's not used? Ot is it simply legal?
Quote from: Feathers on June 07, 2010, 05:01:01 AM
It does look cool but would it be legal?
Having something so capable of displaying video within the field of view of the driver seems a little...dangerous to me. Or is it one of those areas of law where it's fine to have the facility as long as it's not used? Ot is it simply legal?
Not sure about the legality. But I don't see how it's different than having an iPad just in the car - or laptop - or navigation in a car. All can be distractions.
I agree with the general point, the specific was triggered because I thought we had legislation over here regarding this but now that I come to search online for a reference, I can't find anything.
I guess I have my iPhone mounted in the car for GPS use so this should be nothing more than a big version of that.
:offtopic Hmmm WWDC today. Next Gen iPhone announcement...drooool.
It's legal in most places here. They even have radios where a small tv pops out for people to view. I think it's all about common sense. If someone is prone to distraction while driving, it doesn't matter if it's a movie or a piece of string with something shiny on the end, they will find a way to be distracted.
Quote from: Feathers on June 07, 2010, 05:41:03 AM
:offtopic Hmmm WWDC today. Next Gen iPhone announcement...drooool.
Yes I am waiting anxiously for this one...going to have to control myself to not run out and buy one right away....I think that will be a loosing battle..
Quote from: Bromptonboy on June 07, 2010, 09:38:54 AM
Quote from: Feathers on June 07, 2010, 05:41:03 AM
:offtopic Hmmm WWDC today. Next Gen iPhone announcement...drooool.
Yes I am waiting anxiously for this one...going to have to control myself to not run out and buy one right away....I think that will be a loosing battle..
Well, it won't come into it's own (over a 3G) until OS4 comes out so you should have at least a couple of weeks of token resistance to display.
Back to the iPad...
Another aside (or maybe not becuase perhaps they will talk about the iPad), gdgt live blog of today's event:
http://live.gdgt.com/2010/06/07/live-wwdc-2010-keynote-coverage/ (http://live.gdgt.com/2010/06/07/live-wwdc-2010-keynote-coverage/)
Simon Pegg sent this photo out and the follow message on Twitter. :roflmao
@simonpegg: Hello? Ambulance? I'M SHRINKING!!!
That's what I would have done too. :)
This was interesting:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/02/apples_ipad_passes_google_android_in_total_browser_usage_share.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/02/apples_ipad_passes_google_android_in_total_browser_usage_share.html)
According to this, more people are browsing the internet on iPads than the Android phone. Not sure of it's veracity, but I think that would make sense as the browsing experience on the iPad is, well, just more. iPad sales estimates for calender year 2010 are now upwards of 10 million units.
Another research item from Goldman Sachs on the iPad's future...
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/14/report_apples_ipad_to_copy_iphone_in_eating_up_lions_share_of_profits.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/14/report_apples_ipad_to_copy_iphone_in_eating_up_lions_share_of_profits.html)
Business's now looking at iPad for their employees..
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/att_reveals_400k_500k_of_us_ipad_3g_activated_in_first_2_months.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/23/att_reveals_400k_500k_of_us_ipad_3g_activated_in_first_2_months.html)
Apple stuff for large corporations is still priced to high IMO. It's easier to buy a cheap laptop (Dell or HP) than give out an iPad and inccur the additional support costs that would come with another platform.
Our company with over 28k employees has never even considered Apple products beyond a few Macs for VERY specific reasons.
Apple will have major hurdles to get the iPad as a mainline business solution.
I want to work for one of those places. I'm using Win 2000 on a 10 year old PC at work! And Blackride is correct, it's bang for the buck in the corporate world. And it's VERY hard to justify Mac products based on that. And an iPad is frankly silly for work use.
..and yet 50% of the Fortune 100 companies are currently testing the iPad and iPhone for enterprise use. Just stating the facts. I have never considered Apple to really have an interest in enterprise beyond education, but the iPhone's succes and now the iPad are causing me to rething that.
I could see iPads leveraged in POS systems for restaurants and retail, maybe behind the front desk of hotels, anywhere where a touch screen and limited functionality would be useful. Full on office work? Meh. The problem (aside form cost) is that companies have standardized on windows/office. Their clients are on windows/office. it will be very difficult approaching impossible for Apple to break into that market.
Apple has a version of OSX server, however I really don't think Apple is putting much effort into breaking into the enterprise with thier desktop stuff. They are trying to get the iPhone to challenge the Blackberry. That would be their best inroads into the enterprise.
I think this is fairly clear:
Apple this week declined to give a breakdown on Wi-Fi-only vs. 3G-capable iPad sales, but AT&T provided some insight when the wireless carrier revealed it activated between 400,000 and 500,000 last quarter, and reiterated its popularity with enterprise customers.
AT&T Chief Financial Officer Rick Linder, on his company's quarterly earnings conference call Thursday, announced the number, which applies only to U.S. sales. The 3G iPad launched in the U.S. in late April, while the international launch occurred a month later.
"One thing that's been encouraging and a bit surprising so far is the level of interest from business customers," Linder revealed. "...Right from the beginning with the iPad, we've had a number of our business customers express interest. A number of them have trials going on."
He continued: "Businesses see the opportunity in many cases to use the iPad potentially in place of laptops for many of their people that travel."
That falls in line with what Apple said this week regarding fast iPad enterprise adoption. In its own quarterly earnings call on Tuesday, the Cupertino, Calif., company said that more than 50 percent of Fortune 100 companies are deploying or testing the iPad in only its first three months of availability. The Wi-Fi-only model launched nearly a month before the 3G-capable hardware.
Apple sold 3.27 million iPads in the device's first three months, and likely would have sold more if production could have kept up with demand. Company executives have said they do not know when they will be able to meet that demand, as they are currently selling every iPad they can make.
Linder said that corporate adoption of the iPad has come more quickly than it did with the iPhone. Though Apple's smartphone took more time, it is now at use in more than 80 percent of Fortune 100 companies.
"When we first introduced the iPhone, the businesses -- and in particular the CIOs (of)... our business customers -- were reluctant, and they kind of pushed back on bringing the iPhone into their infrastructure," he said. "And over time, that -- as you know -- has changed dramatically, and now we have businesses that are developing applications and putting their own applications and content down on the iPhone base within their companies."
So either the CFO of AT&T is a liar or companies are looking much more seriously at Apple products. I doubt they would become widely adopted, however this is a huge win for the comapny to be even in a few corp[orations and to have others considering their platform. Apple's enterprise footprint is so small, it easy to grow it exponetialy.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 23, 2010, 07:51:07 AM
So either the CFO of AT&T is a liar or companies are looking much more seriously at Apple products. I doubt they would become widely adopted, however this is a huge win for the comapny to be even in a few corp[orations and to have others considering their platform. Apple's enterprise footprint is so small, it easy to grow it exponetialy.
I have been in this industry long enough to never say never but at this point the price point and supportability issues with Apple products is a lot to overcome for major companies with significants amount of capital invested in non-Apple products. Now if you are talking about stock value that's a different story. Apple imo, does not need to get into the enterprise to stay profitable.
It is all about the apps. I left my work laptop at home one day and had no problem getting all my IT work accomplished that day using my IPad. If companies like Microsoft and Oracle create IPad clients that do database management and other office tool functions, then the IPad will be more acceptable at the office -- especially for executives, sales folks, and HR staff. I can also see it being used in retail stores just like Apple does now with their iPhones.
But replace the mainstream Windows and Linux desktops and laptops? Not likely. And price indefinitely an obstacle for adoption when PCs are so inexpensive. And one other issue is self-maintenance. Companies tend to fix their own equipment with spare components and only contact the vendor for more difficult warranty repairs. The idea ofmsending machines back to an Apple Store for repairs won't sit well.
Quote from: Blackride on July 23, 2010, 07:58:50 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on July 23, 2010, 07:51:07 AM
So either the CFO of AT&T is a liar or companies are looking much more seriously at Apple products. I doubt they would become widely adopted, however this is a huge win for the comapny to be even in a few corp[orations and to have others considering their platform. Apple's enterprise footprint is so small, it easy to grow it exponetialy.
I have been in this industry long enough to never say never but at this point the price point and supportability issues with Apple products is a lot to overcome for major companies with significants amount of capital invested in non-Apple products. Now if you are talking about stock value that's a different story. Apple imo, does not need to get into the enterprise to stay profitable.
I would agree, but upgrade cycles are coming sooner and sooner and the possible growth of things like cloud computing could decouple the windows/linux based system currently in use. RickPeete I think identifies the initial areas where I can see Apple making inroads. Again, at this point it's a small percentage of eneterprise use, but that's a huge percentage gain for Apple that has the potential to grow even larger over time.
Rick P. -
I'm surprised you could do everything for your IT work done on an iPad for the day. Don't you need multiple apps or tools open to do your job? I know when I do web work, I need a real PC as I have many things going on at once. Web site editing tools, multiple browsers, FTP program, Paintshop, etc. all humming along to do what I need done. I could never do that on an iPad.
Quote from: Bryancd on July 23, 2010, 08:08:29 AM
Quote from: Blackride on July 23, 2010, 07:58:50 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on July 23, 2010, 07:51:07 AM
So either the CFO of AT&T is a liar or companies are looking much more seriously at Apple products. I doubt they would become widely adopted, however this is a huge win for the comapny to be even in a few corp[orations and to have others considering their platform. Apple's enterprise footprint is so small, it easy to grow it exponetialy.
I have been in this industry long enough to never say never but at this point the price point and supportability issues with Apple products is a lot to overcome for major companies with significants amount of capital invested in non-Apple products. Now if you are talking about stock value that's a different story. Apple imo, does not need to get into the enterprise to stay profitable.
I would agree, but upgrade cycles are coming sooner and sooner and the possible growth of things like cloud computing could decouple the windows/linux based system currently in use. RickPeete I think identifies the initial areas where I can see Apple making inroads. Again, at this point it's a small percentage of eneterprise use, but that's a huge percentage gain for Apple that has the potential to grow even larger over time.
Cloud computing is being dominated by OCS / California project. We have been to EMC and VMware numerous times on this.
I was ablle to use Terminal Services to manage my web servers, do my HTML editing, FTP files between servers, use WebDAV To open and save files across environments, handle my email, test my sites using two different browsers on the IPad, etc.
The only main app I do not have on the IPad is an MS-SQL client. I had to log into a server and run that from there.
As for multiple windows, that part was a little bit of a distraction but not too much since most ofmthe apps maintained their "state" between execution. When iOS4 hits the iPad in September, then that issue will be handled.
Is there a SSH client out there for the iPad?
Quote from: RickPeete on July 23, 2010, 12:16:48 PM
I was ablle to use Terminal Services to manage my web servers, do my HTML editing, FTP files between servers, use WebDAV To open and save files across environments, handle my email, test my sites using two different browsers on the IPad, etc.
The only main app I do not have on the IPad is an MS-SQL client. I had to log into a server and run that from there.
As for multiple windows, that part was a little bit of a distraction but not too much since most ofmthe apps maintained their "state" between execution. When iOS4 hits the iPad in September, then that issue will be handled.
I have no idea what any of that means, but it makes the iPad sound even more awesome. :)
There are several SSH client apps for the iPad,
A few years ago we would never have even been discussing Apple's potential in the enterprise space. Now it's slowly becoming a reality thanks to the strength of their portable devices and the ever changing needs of corporations. Mark my words, this is a very important trend to watch.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars)
How Star Trek artists imagined the iPad... 23 years ago
By Chris Foresman
One interesting characteristic of Star Trek: The Next Generation—one that separated it from the original series and most of the early films—was its widespread use of smooth, flat, touch-based control panels throughout the Enterprise-D. This touch interface was also used for numerous portable devices known as PADDs, or Personal Access Display Devices. These mobile computing terminals bear a striking resemblance to Apple's iPad—a mobile computing device largely defined by its smooth, flat touchscreen interface.
To understand the thinking that lead to the design of the Star Trek PADD, we spoke to some of the people involved in production of ST:TNG (as well as other Star Trek TV series and films), including Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda, and Doug Drexler. All three were involved in various aspects of production art for Star Trek properties, including graphic design, set design, prop design, visual effects, art direction, and more. We also discussed their impressions of the iPad and how eerily similar it is to their vision of 24th century technology, how science fiction often influences technology, and what they believe is the future of human-machine interaction.
From "electronic clipboard" to PADD
The Star Trek films, beginning with 1979's Star Trek: The Motion Picture, had sizable budgets for set design, props, and special effects. However, the original Star Trek series from the 1960s didn't have the resources to fill starships with buttons, knobs, and video displays.
According to Michael Okuda, original Star Trek art director Matt Jefferies had practically no budget. "He had to invent an inexpensive, but believable solution," he told Ars. "The spacecraft of the day, such as the Gemini capsules, were jammed full of toggle switches and gauges. If he had had the money to buy those things, the Enterprise would have looked a lot like that."
Because Jefferies was forced by budget restraints to be creative, however, the original Enterprise bridge was relatively sparse and simplistic. "Because he did such a brilliant job visualizing it, I think the original Star Trek still holds up today reasonably well," Okuda said.
Similar budget constraints meant creative solutions were required for ST:TNG as well. "We had a much lower budget than the feature films did," Okuda told Ars. "So, for example, I looked at the production process of making a control panel, and I said, 'How can I make this as inexpensive as possible?' Having made those decisions, 'now what can I do to make it as futuristic as possible?'"
Example control panels designed by Michael Okuda. What could be simpler to make than a flat surface with no knobs, buttons, switches, or other details? Okuda designed a user interface dominated large type and sweeping, curved rectangles. The style was first employed in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home for the Enterprise-A, and came to be referred to as "okudagrams." The graphics could be created on transparent colored sheets very cheaply, though as ST:TNG progressed, control panels increasingly used video panels or added post-production animations.
"The initial motivation for that was in fact cost," Okuda explained. "Doing it purely as a graphic was considerably less expensive than buying electronic components. But very quickly we began to realize—as we figured out how these things would work and how someone would operate them, people would come to me and say, 'What happens if I need to do this?' Perhaps it was some action I hadn't thought of, and we didn't have a specific control for that. And I realized the proper answer to that was, 'It's in the software.' All the things we needed could be software-definable."
What Okuda realized is that with physical hardware interfaces, each function has to be designed into the interface from the beginning. But by imagining that software could re-configure the interface as needed, the writers were able to imagine any function that needed to advance the plot, and the production artists could create a "software" interface to perform the specific action.
Since the props weren't real functioning devices, no real code needed to be written. "We were considerably freer to imagine, 'What if you do this? Or what if you just touched that and it changed into a helm panel?'" Okuda said.
Still, the design of the user interface on the various control panels was influenced by user experience considerations. "What I tried to do was create something that, at a distance, looked like it had a macro-level organization," Okuda told Ars, "and when you got closer, there appeared to be an additional overlay of organization on top of that. The viewer would imagine, looking at it, 'If I study this close enough, I could figure out how to fly a starship.'"
Lt. Uhura using an electronic clipboard on Star Trek. Avid viewers may remember that officers on the original Star Trek took notes or signed off on orders using what were referred to as "electronic clipboards." These rather bulky-looking (by today's standards) boxes had a sloped top with a large area for writing with an attached stylus, as well as a few light-up buttons. Lt. Uhura often used one in her role as communications officer.
For ST:TNG and beyond, Star Fleet used touchscreen PADDs. The thin, handheld devices used the same interface as the control panels and computers on the Enterprise-D. "The idea was that we wanted to make them sleeker, slimmer, and way more advanced than the electronic clipboards were on the original series," Okuda said.
But PADDs were much more powerful than electronic note pads. "We realized that with the networking capabilities we had postulated for the ship, and given the [hypothetical] flexibility of the software, you should be able to fly the ship from the PADD," Okuda said.
Star Trek dreams
An early PADD from ST:TNG, which featured predictive text input. Like the PADD, Apple's iPad and other iOS devices are designed largely around the idea that the software defines how the device can be used. "Nothing compares to the almost alive interface of the iPad," Doug Drexler told Ars. An ardent reader of science fiction from the age of 10, the iPad's touch interface was something he had long expected. "I think my attitude was, 'It's about time!'," he said.
"I think that anything that has no apparent mechanism yet delivers a big punch is either futuristic or, if you are from the Middle Ages, magic," Drexler explained. "Advanced alien devices on the original Trek series often had no discernible mechanism. So touch interfaces seem like magic. It's also slightly eerie, as you have the sensation that this thing is aware of you."
Even Okuda was impressed with how natural and fluid the interface of the iPad feels in use. Actions that involved complex post-production effects on a PADD actually seem easy on an iPad, he said. "There are a lot of things that are very easy to do in a prop, but actually very difficult to do in reality," he told Ars. "For example, pinch to zoom—that was relatively difficult to do even as a visual effect. It's implemented brilliantly on the iPad and the iPhone."
Drexler said that to him, the iPad is "eerily similar" to the PADDs used in Star Trek. "We always felt that the classic Okuda T-bar graphic was malleable, and that you could stretch and rearrange it to suit your task, just like the iPad," he said. "The PADD never had a keyboard as part of its casing, just like the iPad. Its geometry is almost exactly the same—the corner radius, the thickness, and overall rectangular shape."
"It's uncanny to have a PADD that really works," Drexler said, unlike the non-functional props made for the TV series and later films. "The iPad is the true Star Trek dream," Drexler told Ars.
A quantum leap
Okuda identified ease of use as a driving factor behind technology that the production team envisioned for the future—a driving factor that Roddenberry himself considered essential.
"One thing that informed not just the PADD, but the overall technology, was that Gene Roddenberry wanted the new Enterprise to be visibly more advanced then the original Enterprise," Okuda said. "Roddenberry had the wisdom to realize that 'advanced' didn't mean 'more complicated.' He actually wanted things to be much simpler. So we took that to mean that it was cleaner, better user interfaces, fewer buttons, fewer things to learn how to operate," he told Ars.
Captain Sisko manipulates digital images using a PADD on ST:DS9. Touch is a natural interaction for users, and lends itself to greater ease of use. Executed well, it can make devices more accessible, in a shorter period of time, to a wider user base. "The average user can pick up an iPhone or an iPad, and with 30 seconds of instruction, they can use it," Okuda said. "Maybe not in great detail, but for them it's still a functional device."
Early personal computers weren't known for ease of use. "I remember growing up with IBM PCs, using them, and being comfortable with the DOS operating system," Okuda said. "But at the same time, I was frustrated with the fact that I had to think the same way the designers and programmers did."
The Mac changed all that, Okuda told Ars. "The very first time I saw the Apple Macintosh, it was an astonishing quantum breakthrough. Here was someone beating their brains into guacamole in order to make this machine easy for me to use," he said.
Sorting photos on an iPad. Denise Okuda, Michael's wife, didn't come from an art or technology background before working on Star Trek. Her original vocation was nursing, but she later became more involved in design and art direction with Michael's help and her comfort using a Mac. "When I first sat down at a DOS-based computer, I wanted nothing to do with them," she explained. "But that changed when I used a Macintosh for the first time. Within a few minutes I could learn how to use it; that was my 'ah-ha moment.'"
Both Michael and Denise felt the same "ah-ha moment" when using an iPad. "The iPad, that kind of interface, represents another quantum leap over the interface in the original Macintosh," Michael told Ars.
Okuda expressed frustration that so many other devices had been designed for the technology and not the user. By way of example, he described how easily his parents would typically give up after trying out some new technology. "Yet, you hand them something simple—relatively simple—like an iPad, and the learning curve is very short and the payoff is almost immediate," he said.
Today: science fiction, tomorrow: reality
The same general concepts behind the PADD doubtless had some influence in the eventual development of the iPad. But science fiction often inspires new technology, and many devices that we now take for granted appeared in Star Trek.
"Going back to the original series, when you look at 45 years ago, look at the communicator they used," Denise Okuda said. "Then fast forward and look at what we are using today: flip phones." Likewise, interchangeable data chips were used on the original Enterprise well before the introduction of solid-state memory cards or USB flash drives. "It's really mind-blowing when you look at things today, like the iPad—we were using those things on Star Trek," she told Ars.
Drexler sees examples of real-life technology that were likely influenced by technology used on Star Trek practically everywhere. "Swiss army knife-like cell phones, wall-sized TV screens a quarter of an inch thick, GPS devices that nag you with voice, body scanners at airports, voice recognition, remotely operated fighter planes, surgical robots," he said.
But all three are convinced that more advanced user interaction is just around the corner. Drexler mentioned voice recognition, something used extensively in Star Trek to communicate with a ship's computer. The iPhone has the somewhat limited Voice Control feature, and Android-powered smartphones can use voice to input text anywhere in the system. Voice will be an important input method, especially for those aren't able to type or otherwise use their hand, but neither Denise nor Michael Okuda think natural language will be the evolution of human-machine interaction.
Denise noted that in public, giving voice commands to a device would in many cases be considered rude. "I don't want to hear people's phone conversations, let alone them talking to their devices," she said. While voice may very well be one possible input method, she believes there will still be some kind of silent input method that won't disrupt the environment. Otherwise, she said, "you can get into problems when you put technology above people."
Michael also noted that voice input is generally inefficient. "Imagine I'm looking at some photos, and I want to say, 'Up, up, left, down one, photo number 3362, no, the one on the left.'—that's much slower than just clicking or tapping," he said. "Natural language is, I think, going to have some significant limitations."
The user interface used in Minority Report relied on spacial gestures. Still, what new frontiers are out there for interacting with computing devices? Michael Okuda believes that removing the touch requirement will bring new advances in gesture-based control. "Once you don't have to physically touch the screen," he told Ars, "I think yet another window is going to open up."
Something similar to the 3D gestures used to manipulate video and other data in the film Minority Report could become commonplace, though perhaps not while standing in front of a huge translucent display. "That looks good on camera," Okuda said, "but I think when the technology is available, there will be a way to put it in a desk or something to make it workable."
Drexler referenced another sci-fi film, The Terminator, for his more succinct prognostication: "interactive ocular HUD."
Whatever the advances, though, focusing on the end user will be the driving force behind the true innovations. "As devices get more powerful, hopefully we will continue to see things being considered in terms of the user's time and learning curve, rather than the power of the machine," Okuda said. "The complexity should be abstracted, synthesized down to the simplest possible interface for instant gratification, with the shortest possible learning curve—that is the wave of the future."
"At least, it should be," Okuda told Ars.
Cross post but good article here:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/08/how-star-trek-artists-imagined-the-ipad-23-years-ago.ars)
Yep - Trek does it again with predicting the future.
Quote from: Rico on August 10, 2010, 11:26:58 AM
Yep - Trek does it again with predicting the future.
Makes you wonder if Trek predicted the future or shaped it.
Quote from: Rico on August 10, 2010, 11:26:58 AM
Yep - Trek does it again with predicting the future.
And Apple does it again by delivering it to us!
great article!
A nice bit of history. It's amazing what people invent just to cut costs.
What we need now is a parallel unuiverse where the only difference from ours is a lack of Trek so that we can go and investigate whether these things would have come to be without Gene :)
Oooh. Just read all that in the iPad thread!
I thought art was supposed to mimic life, not the other way around.
Quote from: Feathers on August 11, 2010, 06:00:04 AM
Oooh. Just read all that in the iPad thread!
I thought art was supposed to mimic life, not the other way around.
It's not the first time. Over head medical displays in hospitals were a result of TOS.
Not the first time by far. Cell phones = communicators.
(merging this with the iPad thread)
That's the truth for sure. Trek Tech is becoming reality on a daily basis.
I thought you guys might enjoy this video I cam across. It's an Ipad mini orchestra. The piece of music is actually pretty cool.
http://pogpog.com/v/the-ipad-orchestra/ (http://pogpog.com/v/the-ipad-orchestra/)
Kevin
Thank you Kevin, I LOVED IT! I now have to wipe up the drool off the floor.
Quote from: moyer777 on September 15, 2010, 10:59:33 PM
Thank you Kevin, I LOVED IT! I now have to wipe up the drool off the floor.
Edit nvm.
King
This should add some fuel to Bryan's iPad love. Article from "Wired" below. And Bryan, I didn't know that you also ran Best Buy! ;)
According to Best Buy Chief Executive Brian Dunn, the iPad has replaced around half of all laptop sales. Further, the little tablet is also slowing TV sales, despite the manufacturers' desperate push to shift 3D sets.
Speaking to the Wall Street Journal, Dunn said that sales are slowing in general on bigger gadgets, and that the hot products are the iPad, e-readers like the Kindle, and digital cameras. Instead of upgrading televisions, many people are sticking with the ones they own and spending the cash on iPads and other things they don't already have.
But the biggest surprise is that 50% figure. It's an internal, Best Buy estimate, but proves what we at Gadget Lab thought all along: that Mom and Pop would switch from cheap, unreliable and hard-to-use laptops and buy the iPad instead, an intuitive device which covers 90% of their computing needs. When the iPad gets a FaceTime camera (and hopefully a video-capable version of Skype) then the only people buying laptops will be those who need the horsepower for work.
These crazy iPad sales are taking their bite out of Windows market-share, too, not the Mac's. Mac sales, which are mostly notebook sales anyway, continue to grow every quarter. This means that people are dropping Windows for the iPad. With the lack of any viable Windows-based iPad competitor, Microsoft should be getting very worried indeed: after all, the bulk of its business comes from bundling its OS with commodity hardware — the exact hardware that Best Buy has seen drop in sales by half.
Read More http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/09/best-buy-chief-ipad-cannibalizes-laptop-sales-by-50/#ixzz0znPsfuk5 (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/09/best-buy-chief-ipad-cannibalizes-laptop-sales-by-50/#ixzz0znPsfuk5)
source:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/09/best-buy-chief-ipad-cannibalizes-laptop-sales-by-50/ (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/09/best-buy-chief-ipad-cannibalizes-laptop-sales-by-50/)
Bryan you've been holding out on us! :D
Nuts. Even I'm starting to want one now.
p.s. Did you notice what Bryan did with his name there? Changed the spelling so we wouldn't notice. Sneaky!
I'm not really surprised, I'm looking at the iPad for education now, it should be possible too....unsure.
King
I want one too, but can't justify a reason for it. Other than wanting a new toy! :)
I am trying to tell you guys that the iPad is an awesome tool that is so versatile as to make NetBooks unnecessary. Work, play, reading, relaxation -- all there. There are only two things I cannot do with this device... I cannot click on the Browse button on the TrekSF site to upload photos from it, and I cannot view Flash websites and certain Flash videos. But other than that, I am good.
Once iOS4 comes to the iPad in November, then I will really be happy. I need the task switching capability as I move between various apps while working. It will save me time on certain tasks.
There is a new vidcast from Twit.tv called iPad Today. It is a nice show, all about iPad applications and ideas about how to best use the device. Good ole Leo LaPorte.
Quote from: Ktrek on September 15, 2010, 02:42:14 PM
I thought you guys might enjoy this video I cam across. It's an Ipad mini orchestra. The piece of music is actually pretty cool.
http://pogpog.com/v/the-ipad-orchestra/ (http://pogpog.com/v/the-ipad-orchestra/)
Kevin
I'm not say it's not good but it we never replace the stylophone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhQKJ40UHM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhQKJ40UHM#)
LOL! Yes, I knew that, it's a very funny coincidence! I saw this article yesterday. Like I mentioned back when they rolled the iPad out and folks were wondering who would buy it, I said it's going to take a huge portion of the laptop market. So many people have lap tops which have way more capacity then they ever use. Folks want their media and their internet in an nice form factor, larger screen than a smartphone, and thats cool and fun to use. That's the iPad, which just went on sale in China.
Funny that it's just now on sale in China, even though that's where they make it. :)
Like I have said before I think the Ipad is a really cool device but it doesn't offer me anything I don't already have. It's a flashy and glitzy and cool toy but more expensive than I am willing to shove out right now. Not supporting flash is a huge drawback for me too because a lot of the sites I frequent need it (like my Golden Age of Hollywood social network). If the price dropped to around $300 I would seriously consider one but not yet.
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on September 17, 2010, 03:20:02 PM
Like I have said before I think the Ipad is a really cool device but it doesn't offer me anything I don't already have. It's a flashy and glitzy and cool toy but more expensive than I am willing to shove out right now. Not supporting flash is a huge drawback for me too because a lot of the sites I frequent need it (like my Golden Age of Hollywood social network). If the price dropped to around $300 I would seriously consider one but not yet.
Kevin
I'm a little confused by this statement that keeps saying the iPad's too expensive. Compared to most laptops which go $600+, the iPad almost seems a steal. Now if we're referring to those Netbooks, I guess I can see that, but unless Netbooks have ramped it up in the last year, they really under-perform in pure power. Yes, yes, I know, they aren't supposed to be power-machines, but they seem to struggle doing simple web-browsing. At least, that's what my experience (limited) has shown.
King
I think Kevin is being very specific in regards to his own personal usage and preferences in regards to the iPad. It certainly wouldn't make a lot of economic sense for him as his needs are specific and the iPad not currently supporting Flash prevents him from doing what he wants to do with it, so cost matters more. That's the whole idea about personal electronic devices, they are PERSONAL. We all will have different needs. Having said that, the iPad provides an experience which will be more than sufficient to meet the needs of so many people, it's really amazing. You are correct, King, it's a great deal for a LOT of people.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 17, 2010, 04:22:25 PM
I think Kevin is being very specific in regards to his own personal usage and preferences in regards to the iPad. It certainly wouldn't make a lot of economic sense for him as his needs are specific and the iPad not currently supporting Flash prevents him from doing what he wants to do with it, so cost matters more. That's the whole idea about personal electronic devices, they are PERSONAL. We all will have different needs. Having said that, the iPad provides an experience which will be more than sufficient to meet the needs of so many people, it's really amazing. You are correct, King, it's a great deal for a LOT of people.
Ahh ok, makes sense. For me, I'm just trying to figure out if the iPad will fulfill all my college needs. Hopefully this year will tell me. Then I can get the iPad 2.0 no doubt coming this spring with Facetime and more ;)...maybe, I'm just guessing.
Also, don't forget that Microsoft Office is an Arm and a Leg and your firstborn...and that's only half of what you need. ;)
King
...and a very likely new Verizon data package.. :)
What Bryan said is exactly right and not to mention I already own a laptop and a desktop and an ereader and really see no value in it for me at this time. If my laptop goes kaput on me I would seriously look at at the Ipad but the lack of flash would still be a real issue for me personally. Not insurmountable but if someone softrooted the Ipad to support flash that could possibly be a game changer for me.
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on September 17, 2010, 04:49:44 PMIf my laptop goes kaput on me I would seriously look at at the Ipad but the lack of flash would still be a real issue for me personally. Not insurmountable but if someone softrooted the Ipad to support flash that could possibly be a game changer for me.
Kevin
WOW!!! A convert! What happened to this guy?!
"Apple makes good products no doubt but to me they are like designer clothes...too flashy and way overpriced. They seem to really want to push this device for ereading but I'm going to say right now that any backlit device will be no good for long book reading. It will give you headaches and eye fatigue. There is no way around that. It's the very reason why Sony adopted and developed the eink screen and the Kindle and Nook and many other ereaders have followed suit. Undoubtedly the Ipad is flashy, colorful and beautiful to look at. It certainly caters to the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh but it does not mean it will make a good reading device. Now as far as movies and video games I think it would be ideal but most people that like these kind of things already have devices that can do those very things. I have to agree with Billybob on this one...it is a niche device and I think sales will be slower than Apple is expecting.
Kevin"
OR MY OTHER FAV.....
"Well, for me there are even more negatives about the Ipad. It seems that the Ipad is going to use a proprietary epub format which will close out anyone from buying ebooks from Apple's website and using it on other devices. It also does not support Flash and so that excludes a whole lot of web use that has Flash imbedded along with videos, games etc. This is a quote from Adobe:
Quote
It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.
This is pretty dissapointing news and shows how controlling Apple wants to be. There are other slate/tablet projects coming out soon that I think may not look as flashy as Ipad but will outperform it.
Here's the source:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/ (http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/)
Kevin"
Kev, how do you like your words, grilled, roasted, or pan seared? :biggrin
Multi-Tasking?
Quote from: Blackride on September 17, 2010, 05:42:38 PM
Multi-Tasking?
Are you asking what multi-tasking means? (in regards to the iPad) or if it's come to it yet?
King
I prefer my Ipad grilled to perfection please! ;D
I still stand behind my previous posts. The Ipad does not make a good ereader that's why I own a nook. The lack of flash is still a hinderance to me and pretty much disqualifies the device for my needs. The Ipad is a "toy" and an expensive one at that. I don't currently have the luxury to purchase a device that does things that I can already do but maybe not as sleekly. The Ipad does not really bring anything new to the table and is not as innovative as the Ipod was when it came out. If I were to buy one I still would not use it for reading ebooks. I have tried it and it frankly....um..."sucks". It does cause eye fatigue because of the backlighting for things like books. On the otherhand for Internet type of reading or even magazines and comics it is great! The lack of flash ability is a real REAL downside for me. I think very soon we will see more competitive devices come out at far more reasonable prices that will have the features I need and am looking for. In fact I saw recently an Indian company that can make a similar device to the Ipad for only $35.00 (their cost without software costs) That should put their device right around the $200 to $300 range, which is affordable.
Now let me say this...If I had not been out of work for almost a year now and had my normal cash flow and money I could just "waste" on a cool toy I would for sure buy an Ipad just to have one to play around with. As it is I am just now working again and thankfully before I would have had to file for bankruptcy. The Ipad, for most people, is a "luxury" device and NOT a necessity. It's success just shows you that there are still a lot of people who have excess money they can throw around.
Am I a convert? Not totally.
Kevin
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 17, 2010, 03:55:39 PM
Quote from: Ktrek on September 17, 2010, 03:20:02 PM
Like I have said before I think the Ipad is a really cool device but it doesn't offer me anything I don't already have. It's a flashy and glitzy and cool toy but more expensive than I am willing to shove out right now. Not supporting flash is a huge drawback for me too because a lot of the sites I frequent need it (like my Golden Age of Hollywood social network). If the price dropped to around $300 I would seriously consider one but not yet.
Kevin
I'm a little confused by this statement that keeps saying the iPad's too expensive. Compared to most laptops which go $600+, the iPad almost seems a steal. Now if we're referring to those Netbooks, I guess I can see that, but unless Netbooks have ramped it up in the last year, they really under-perform in pure power. Yes, yes, I know, they aren't supposed to be power-machines, but they seem to struggle doing simple web-browsing. At least, that's what my experience (limited) has shown.
King
King, compared to any tech device, the iPAD is expensive. If you were to invest the same amount of money spent on a iPAD, you could get a laptop or a desktop that blows it away, Hell you could get a ereader and a netbook with more memory and processing power for less than the cost of a iPAD with a fraction of the memory it would have.
Again this isn't to bash the iPAD, but it seems that it's only a deal to those that are looking for a entertainment device and not a computing system. It also seems that it's only a deal to those less tech savy people that have more disposable income than time to research the value of the device in comparison to what you can get for the same amount of money.
Having played with the iPAD more, I like it more, but it's not cost effective for me. I have tons of things and all of them require a lot of memory. I have over two terabytes in storage and various SDHC and USB memory. The iPAD's limited memory defeats anything that I would really want to do with the device.
I would love to have one as a entertainment unit, but there are too many other options that allow me to do that and supports higher levels of storage.
I love the cool things that I've seen done with the iPAD, but they are kind of gimmicky. They would be fun for a while, but then it would go back to being an entertainment device.
If I am going to invest the money for the high end version and all of the accessories needed to make it more work friendly, like a keyboard, I'd be better off just getting a lap top and adding a touch screed to it.
x2 = What X said!
Quite honestly, this is like one of those discussions about politics or religion. You have your PC fans on one side and your Mac fans on the other. No matter what either side says to the other, or what proof, evidence or whatever either side obtains and exhibits, the sides will most likely never see eye to eye. My 52 cents... (inflation)....
Quote from: Ktrek on September 17, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
I prefer my Ipad grilled to perfection please! ;D
I still stand behind my previous posts. The Ipad does not make a good ereader that's why I own a nook. The lack of flash is still a hinderance to me and pretty much disqualifies the device for my needs. The Ipad is a "toy" and an expensive one at that. I don't currently have the luxury to purchase a device that does things that I can already do but maybe not as sleekly. The Ipad does not really bring anything new to the table and is not as innovative as the Ipod was when it came out. If I were to buy one I still would not use it for reading ebooks. I have tried it and it frankly....um..."sucks". It does cause eye fatigue because of the backlighting for things like books. On the otherhand for Internet type of reading or even magazines and comics it is great! The lack of flash ability is a real REAL downside for me. I think very soon we will see more competitive devices come out at far more reasonable prices that will have the features I need and am looking for. In fact I saw recently an Indian company that can make a similar device to the Ipad for only $35.00 (their cost without software costs) That should put their device right around the $200 to $300 range, which is affordable.
Now let me say this...If I had not been out of work for almost a year now and had my normal cash flow and money I could just "waste" on a cool toy I would for sure buy an Ipad just to have one to play around with. As it is I am just now working again and thankfully before I would have had to file for bankruptcy. The Ipad, for most people, is a "luxury" device and NOT a necessity. It's success just shows you that there are still a lot of people who have excess money they can throw around.
Am I a convert? Not totally.
Kevin
LOL! Well played, sir! No, I get that. My wife is very taken with reading books on the iPad, both outside during the day and and night before bed int he dark and has had no eye strain issues. I might try it myself to see how it is, but man I just love paper books. In regards to Flash, I hear some rumors that there may potentially be a peace between Apple and Adobe, a compromise of sorts, but that is TBD. Surely there will be competitive devices of equal merit, just like in the smart phone space, but Apple still has the eco-system model with iTunes and such that keeps consumers captured. Again, an iPad isn't for everyone, your case in point, but it is for a LOT of people and that's why they have such a winner in it.
Quote from: X on September 19, 2010, 09:39:02 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 17, 2010, 03:55:39 PM
Quote from: Ktrek on September 17, 2010, 03:20:02 PM
Like I have said before I think the Ipad is a really cool device but it doesn't offer me anything I don't already have. It's a flashy and glitzy and cool toy but more expensive than I am willing to shove out right now. Not supporting flash is a huge drawback for me too because a lot of the sites I frequent need it (like my Golden Age of Hollywood social network). If the price dropped to around $300 I would seriously consider one but not yet.
Kevin
I'm a little confused by this statement that keeps saying the iPad's too expensive. Compared to most laptops which go $600+, the iPad almost seems a steal. Now if we're referring to those Netbooks, I guess I can see that, but unless Netbooks have ramped it up in the last year, they really under-perform in pure power. Yes, yes, I know, they aren't supposed to be power-machines, but they seem to struggle doing simple web-browsing. At least, that's what my experience (limited) has shown.
King
King, compared to any tech device, the iPAD is expensive. If you were to invest the same amount of money spent on a iPAD, you could get a laptop or a desktop that blows it away, Hell you could get a ereader and a netbook with more memory and processing power for less than the cost of a iPAD with a fraction of the memory it would have.
Again this isn't to bash the iPAD, but it seems that it's only a deal to those that are looking for a entertainment device and not a computing system. It also seems that it's only a deal to those less tech savy people that have more disposable income than time to research the value of the device in comparison to what you can get for the same amount of money.
Having played with the iPAD more, I like it more, but it's not cost effective for me. I have tons of things and all of them require a lot of memory. I have over two terabytes in storage and various SDHC and USB memory. The iPAD's limited memory defeats anything that I would really want to do with the device.
I would love to have one as a entertainment unit, but there are too many other options that allow me to do that and supports higher levels of storage.
I love the cool things that I've seen done with the iPAD, but they are kind of gimmicky. They would be fun for a while, but then it would go back to being an entertainment device.
If I am going to invest the money for the high end version and all of the accessories needed to make it more work friendly, like a keyboard, I'd be better off just getting a lap top and adding a touch screed to it.
Really? Because from where I'm standing, it would cost me $500 to get an iPad. Unless I wanted a case admittedly. To get a Laptop that I would like, I'd have to pay $900+ so that it ran as smoothly as an iPad, get the entire OVERPRICED Microsoft Office Suite, get a mouse (because let's face it, that touch pad they include is still terrible), get another battery because the battery that comes with Laptops lasts maybe 3-4 hours of normal use and etc and so forth. I'm just saying, it would cost me a lot of $$ to get the software and hardware I want. Unless you want me to go pirate then fine, I'll do that and save myself about $200 in software costs.
You are right on the memory and 16 GBs is limiting (or 32), but my mobile devices have never needed an exception amount of data storage. True, I don't hold tons of videos on it, so if I were more into film, I'd probably have a bigger problem with the limitation. As it is, I use an App on my iPhone to stream videos whenever I need it. I haven't decided if the limitation is too much for college yet as I plan on testing the iPhone + keyboard this year. Then we'll see if the iPad is even worth looking at. All I ever need my mobile device to do for college is search the internet, type up notes/papers and maybe make excel sheets. This can all be done from Apple's base software on the iPad.
To be frank, I just haven't been impressed with Laptops in general. After dealing with my (incredibly overpriced) laptop I had, which btw, costed me $2,000, dealing with my brother's and my Grandmother's, there is very little that Laptops offer me anymore. The stupid recovery partition never works, the bloated software it comes with just causes me annoyance and they are heavy. Bad enough I have to carry around a bunch of heavy books, I don't need a heavy tech gadget on my other arm, already suffered through that at OIT. Do I really need to point out the heat-issues that these things have? Just listening to my brother's laptop's fans scream sometimes makes me wonder if it'll last. And no, getting another fan should not be needed, this is a mobile device. Or so I heard.
Gaming on the road has no appeal to me anymore. Considering the cost of playing WoW nicely with a laptop hits more than $1,000+, yuck. My desktop can do gaming so much faster and better and have 0 heat issues and I can build it myself and save a ton of $$. Oh and I'm less likely to drop it.
Sorry for the rant, but with the exception of True Flash (yuck) and bigger storage space (which is still limited on Laptops to...500 GB) I have been burned more by laptops (not literally) than helped. At least with Apple products, I don't have to worry that I might have to send it back to the company for 2-3 months right in the middle of schooling because the cooling system failed. Which yes, that did happen to me. Was not happy.
King
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
P.S. And you certainly don't need MS Office. Open Office is just fine - and free. http://www.openoffice.org/ (http://www.openoffice.org/)
Quote from: QuadShot on September 19, 2010, 10:54:19 AM
Quite honestly, this is like one of those discussions about politics or religion. You have your PC fans on one side and your Mac fans on the other. No matter what either side says to the other, or what proof, evidence or whatever either side obtains and exhibits, the sides will most likely never see eye to eye. My 52 cents... (inflation)....
Well, sales and revenue numbers don't lie or have opinions, they just are, and based on that plus the research available, a lot of consumers don't need or want the power of a laptop. Read the article on the previous page from the Best Buy CEO, laptop consumers are moving over into the iPad space. It's not a question of stupid consumers, it's consumers buying the product they want and what they want is the iPad. Again, I always advise people they need to look be beyond there own prejudices about what they like or want or need or think and look at the big picture. The devil is in those details.
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Rick Pete seems to be proving that the iPad is a very versatile device...
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Well, it must not be Dell or HP, I just checked their websites and base price is $600 for most of their laptop lines.
Forget that software isn't included in that price, so go ahead and link. Maybe it'll change my mind.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Rick Pete seems to be proving that the iPad is a very versatile device...
Rick isn't playing World of Warcraft on it. ;)
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Rick Pete seems to be proving that the iPad is a very versatile device...
Rick isn't playing World of Warcraft on it. ;)
I have a feeling my teachers wouldn't appreciate me playing WoW on it in class ;)
King
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Rick Pete seems to be proving that the iPad is a very versatile device...
Rick isn't playing World of Warcraft on it. ;)
No, but did you see that neat Medieval fighting game they had at the Apple presentation a few weeks ago? That looked cool!
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
Tim - If you want to buy a laptop for $500 I can point you to several good models that all have more processing power, memory, storage, etc. than an iPad. But, it all depends on what you want to do with either item. For viewing web pages, videos, reading some things, etc. an iPad is just fine. But it can't do what even a $500 laptop can handle. I'm not knocking it, (I'd love one), but it's a matter of the right tool for the right job.
Rick Pete seems to be proving that the iPad is a very versatile device...
Rick isn't playing World of Warcraft on it. ;)
I have a feeling my teachers wouldn't appreciate me playing WoW on it in class ;)
King
I'm not following your point? What has that got to do with which item can do more? And here are a couple fine laptops from Best Buys ad this week.
I'm not sure why I get sucked into this discussion each time. I guess I must enjoy it! LOL!
Look, again it all comes down to what you need and want the item to do. An iPad has simply less things it can handle than just about any laptop being made out there. Does that make it bad or less desirable? No. It just might not be able to do what certain people need. Now, that group of people might be small percentage wise. But for some, only having an iPad might not cut it.
Let me use an analogy. There are tons of cars you can buy out there. You could own a truck, a van, a sports car, a Hummer, etc. But you get something based on both what you need and like. Doesn't make one really better than another. Probably not the best analogy, but I think you get my meaning. And I think that covers it for me.
Up to 3 hours...wow, that'll make it through a class period. Granted that I turn everything off and make the screen dim, then it'll hit 3 hours. -_-....I'll take the 10 hour iPad ;).
Those prices are decent, but it's the software that'll push me up high. And I won't buy from Best Buy, they screwed us over a lot over the years, messed up my Grandmother's main computer and I still can't fix all the damage they did to that one. (Loved their response of, "We did fix it". ::))
But you are right Rico, we just have to find what suits our needs and for me, the iPad, MAY be the way I go. I'm more waiting for version 2.0 of the iPad which I'm guessing may be next year. Probably not, but I'm in no hurry to get either an iPad or a Laptop.
Should be interesting to see how everything comes out.
King
Quote from: Rico on September 19, 2010, 12:06:15 PM
I'm not sure why I get sucked into this discussion each time. I guess I must enjoy it! LOL!
Look, again it all comes down to what you need and want the item to do. An iPad has simply less things it can handle than just about any laptop being made out there. Does that make it bad or less desirable? No. It just might not be able to do what certain people need. Now, that group of people might be small percentage wise. But for some, only having an iPad might not cut it.
Let me use an analogy. There are tons of cars you can buy out there. You could own a truck, a van, a sports car, a Hummer, etc. But you get something based on both what you need and like. Doesn't make one really better than another. Probably not the best analogy, but I think you get my meaning. And I think that covers it for me.
Totally agree. My contention always has been that the iPad isn't the penultimate portable computing device which will render other forms of portable technology useless, it's that it's a device which address a massive market share currently untapped and they will sell a bazillion of these things. As an Investment Advisor, THAT'S ALL that matter to me, being able to anticipate that demand and the way Apple has addressed it.
Completely agree too Bryan. For average Joe Consumer, it's a great item. But, I'm just far from average Joe Consumer. ;)
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 17, 2010, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 17, 2010, 05:42:38 PM
Multi-Tasking?
Are you asking what multi-tasking means? (in regards to the iPad) or if it's come to it yet?
King
No I mean it's silly that they built the ipods and the ipad without it.
Apple's iPad is just not for me. I have virtually no use for it. I use my computers at home and my multiple computers and laptops at work which an iPad can not replace. That being said my sis has a couple of them and likes them but she will buy anything that has the word Apple on it.
iPad's would be interesting for our upper level management at work but our problem is supporting them.
Quote from: Blackride on September 19, 2010, 03:37:16 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 17, 2010, 08:22:32 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 17, 2010, 05:42:38 PM
Multi-Tasking?
Are you asking what multi-tasking means? (in regards to the iPad) or if it's come to it yet?
King
No I mean it's silly that they built the ipods and the ipad without it.
Ah, I thought you meant that, no not yet, the iPad is getting multitasking in 4.2 this November.
King
King, did you notice what you did there? When you compared the laptop the the iPAD, you wanted more things than the iPAD could offer.
Most software costs money, but so does many of the more productive apps.
You mention that Office is a necessity for a laptop, but there are free programs that can compete with Office and Office is something that isn't an option on iPAD.
Your other point about preinstalled software made me laugh. If you don't like a program, you uninstall it. I think you know enough about computers for that not to be an issue.
Your points seemed, and this is only from my perspective, as a way to justify the limitations of the iPAD and compare it to something that the iPAD could never be.
Even the laptops that Rico posted have far more to offer than the iPAD. There are also other devices like the iPAD with flash and greater memory for less cost.
In the end, the iPAD is like Nike. There are other and better shoes out there, but people like to pay for the privilege of wearing the brand. It doesn't matter how good or bad the product is, it's the brand that carries it.
iPADs are the Air Jordans of the electronics industry. People are willing to pay more and accept the limitations because they are cool. I don't see a problem with that because this is a capitalist system.
Just remember that few tech savy people can mount an argument on how the iPAD is a better tech product.
I am willing to concede that it might even be more fun than some other tech products, but it won't compete with a real system.
Hell, I'm kind if shocked that you spent 2,000 on a laptop, but at the same time, it sort of highlights a difference in thinking. I would never pay even half that for a laptop. I can't see a 2,000 laptop giving me anything that I need that couldn't be achieved with a cheaper laptop, more memory and a larger drive ... and still cost less than 2k. I won't even get into the home system I could build with 2k and have money left over for a low end laptop and an ereader.
Wow, Chris, you really don't get it. People accept the iPad because Apple has succeeded in creating an entire user experience around their proprietary ecosystem. Apple makes technology WORK and is EASY. However, they also have to DELIVER the experience, which they do. You can try, as you have continuously, to paint Apple consumers as mindless numb nuts, which I find insulting, and you can live in your little tech Savoy world and disparage all you like, but you know nothing about what people want, that much is clear. The iPad will be THE DOMINATE portable device for years to come and I hope it drives you crazy. :roflmao
Rather than be so vague, why don't you just say what you really mean? "Gee, King, you would be an idiot to buy that stupid thing!"
I'll give you another case in point. My wife has zero interest in technology and yet she LOVES the iPad. Why? Because it's EASY and INTUITIVE to use. She has bought apps, e-books, it's an economic ecosystem on to itself and has opened a whole new world to her. So, Chris, is my wife an mindless idiot because she didn't build her own computer?
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 04:18:40 PM
Wow, Chris, you really don't get it. People accept the iPad because Apple has succeeded in creating an entire user experience around their proprietary ecosystem. Apple makes technology WORK and is EASY. However, they also have to DELIVER the experience, which they do. You can try, as you have continuously, to paint Apple consumers as mindless numb nuts, which I find insulting, and you can live in your little tech Savoy world and disparage all you like, but you know nothing about what people want, that much is clear. The iPad will be THE DOMINATE portable device for years to come and I hope it drives you crazy. :roflmao
I'm not saying they are mindless numb nuts. I freely admitted that people do want them. What I refuse to admit is that it is better tech. It's not. I also admit that they do deliver an experience. I didn't say that people won't buy them or that they are crap. They just don't do anything for me. They don't meet my needs. I also admitted that people wanted them. Still, that doesn't make them a great system.
I think that you are missing my point. I can like the iPAD for what it is, but I can also not like it for what it isn't. I'm not blinded by the cool to know that it can't do many of the things that I need a portable device to do.
I fully and totally agree with you that the iPAD is easy. I will even say that it does exactly what they say it does. Easy however doesn't mean better.
Did you notice that in that whole post above I didn't disparage the iPAD other that point out the branding behind it. That was a small percentage of what I wrote. Beside my opinion on the branding, everything I said is obvious information about the iPAD.
Are you suggesting that I'm wrong about the iPAD having limitations? OR that you can't get cheaper portable devices that do more than the iPAD?
Other than these posts on the boards, the iPAD has very little to do with my day to day life. I don't lust for one, I don't spend sleepless nights wondering how much better my life would be with one. I actually spend more time thinking about what I want in my next two cell phones than thinking about the iPAD.
I don't feel the need to hunt down or flag stories relating to it, beyond the typical research I do when buying any product and comparing it to others of it's type. In all fairness, it's just not that important to me. Be it iPADs, Bluray, or imported cheese, I like to know the pros and the cons of anything that I might buy or compare to something that I might buy.
In the end, I've always had a rule of thumb. Is something that I'm buying worth the cost for it? For me, the iPAD isn't. I don't need the EXPERIENCE. I need something that I can add more memory to when I need to. I need something that I can change the battery without voiding the warranty. I'd also like to be able to access Farmville and Bejewled Blitz.
I respect what the device is. If I look at it in a vacuum, I love the iPAD, but I want better than they can offer and I want more than what they are willing to provide.
That's fine, what you did say, and I am amazed you are not capable of seeing it, is classic passive aggressive where you are qualifying people for whom this is a great option as being absent minded consumers willing to buy whatever. I understand you don't get what I am saying. Being a bit more self examined helps. Also not filtering everything through your own sensibilities and seeing the broader picture might help. Either way, the fact that you don't see how insulting your comments are is impressive, I'll give you that.
you are right that I was trying to justify the iPad
You are right, having Flash is nice for those things like Farmville but I heavily dislike it tbh. We can't live without it annoyingly enough.
I paid $2,000 because I was very naiive and stupid at the time. I was 16 if that's any indication. I never would have paid that much, hell, it's likely I wouldn't have bought one back then knowing what I do now.
I am comparing apples and oranges, this whole argument is actually pointless in this regard. What I appreciate about the iPad is that software works because it was designed for it, viruses are very few and far between and it's quality. I'm the type of person who learns to adapt to limitations, or at least, these days I am. (and I still suck at that, so let's not poke holes in logic shall we? ;) ) So the iPhone limitations don't bother me.
I am looking at this from a perspective of what does the iPad offer me as a student and what does the Laptop offer me as a student. I am not losing any sleep over it myself, as I don't have the $$ to currently afford either of them. But it is something that I will probably need to obtain when I transfer to another college. I haven't decided this, so this argument really is academic and I am curious what your guy's opinions on them are. I apologize if I sounded rude or abrasive for my comments.
You do make valid points on your posts though X, I will not deny you that.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 04:18:40 PM
Rather than be so vague, why don't you just say what you really mean? "Gee, King, you would be an idiot to buy that stupid thing!"
Surely you know by now that if I want to say something then I will say it. If King buys an iPAD, I assure you that I won't lose any sleep of over. However, given some of the things he suggested that he might need in a system, is it wrong for pointing out that the iPAD might not be able to fit his needs? I consider many of the people here friends and I'm not making any money from any companies when I suggest that people look into a product to make sure that it will do what they need instead of just what they think they might want. If someone I call a friend talked about buying a SUV, I have and will point out the issues with the MPG and how they can cause some pretty bad accidents because the bumpers, until the federal mandate to lower the hight of the product, had a habit of doing serious damage to other automobiles and people because they were higher up. Sure, you had a better chance of surviving, but it was at the possible cost of having to wash someone's grey matter off your bumper.
Bryan, my world isn't that black and white. I don't think there is a pro or anti iPAD camp. I think that there are people that will have no problem with the iPAd and it will do everything that they could ever want it to do. I'm just not one of those people. I have also not told anyone to not buy the thing. I said that I wouldn't and I gave actual reasons on why it doesn't work for me. I'm not even saying that I will never buy one or use one. If the benefits to cost thing (for me) ever falls to the iPAD's favor, I'm sure I would get one. That being said, now is not that time. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.
Just posting that I heavily edited my earlier post to make it more clear and concise. (The one above X's)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 05:01:05 PM
While you are right that I was trying to justify the iPad, at the same time I do have some correct details:
Laptops more than not have a tendency to break down due to overheating issues, terrible designs/hardware flaws and the amount of "damage" that is caused by everyday usage. This causes me angst because let's face it, these should be designed with being mobile in-mind, but so far as I can tell, they are not. The average life of non-broken Laptop has been about a year with me (and I am grabbing from friends and relatives on this data). And I do treat them well. But after a year, it seems that the chances of the Laptop being sent back to get fixed (which takes about 2-3 months for some dumb reason, no matter what) goes up by leaps and bounds. Not acceptable. I am sorry, but that is simply not acceptable.
You are right, having Flash is nice for those things like Farmville. I hate flash tbh, but we can't live without it annoyingly enough.
I paid $2,000 because I was very naiive and stupid at the time. I was 16 if that's any indication. I never would have paid that much, hell, it's likely I wouldn't have bought one back then knowing what I do now.
I am comparing apples and oranges, this whole argument is actually pointless in this regard. What I appreciate about the iPad is that software works because it was designed for it, viruses are very few and far between and it's quality. I'm the type of person who learns to adapt to limitations, or at least, these days I am. (and I still suck at that, so let's not poke holes in logic shall we? ;) ) So the iPhone limitations don't bother me.
What I would like to hear is one reason why I should get the laptop for Educational reasons. Ignoring the obvious answers, but what does the laptop offer that the iPad, does not.
I know I'm asking the wrong crowd, but what does the Laptop really have to offer me when I have a desktop?
You do make valid points on your posts though X, I will not deny you that.
King
King here are two reasons to have a laptop.
Portable media. With a laptop, regardless of the manufacturer, there are universal programs that allow you to do your reports and get them printed out at a variety of locations. There are few place that you can't put a USB full of your work and get it printed out.
Online Classes. I know that your basic laptop is good enough to access most online classes and online resources. I'm not sure that it's the case with the iPAD. I haven't done that research. I would err on the side of caution with that one.
While Online classes would be a good argument, I already have a desktop so I would just do classes from it.
I dunno. I'm going to see how this year works out. That will tell me if I want a laptop or not.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 04:52:24 PM
That's fine, what you did say, and I am amazed you are not capable of seeing it, is classic passive aggressive where you are qualifying people for whom this is a great option as being absent minded consumers willing to buy whatever. I understand you don't get what I am saying. Being a bit more self examined helps. Also not filtering everything through your own sensibilities and seeing the broader picture might help. Either way, the fact that you don't see how insulting your comments are is impressive, I'll give you that.
If I came off as passive aggressive, I'm sorry. I like to be more aggressive aggressive. I think that there is some lemming like behavior when it comes to the iPAD. Some people are followers and they get the cool thing because someone else wants it or has it. I'm not saying that it's everyone or even a large percentage of the people that buy the iPAD, but let's not be fools and pretend that they don't exist.
Some people also do the research and decide it's the product for them, I promise you I won't think any less of them for making an informed decision.
On the day the iPAD was released, what percentage of the people standing in lines for hours do you think was there because they had reviewed the specs and thought it will work well with their life style? What percentage of people were in those lines to buy it because it was the next big thing?
Since we don't have numbers on that, I will freely admit that I think more people were buying it because it was the new thing. Do you think that there was zero lemming effect in regards to the iPAD?
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 05:21:46 PM
While Online classes would be a good argument, I already have a desktop so I would just do classes from it.
I dunno. I'm going to see how this year works out. That will tell me if I want a laptop or not.
King
If you have a solid desk top, the iPAD might work for some of your needs. I would also check the warranty for it. I can be rough on my own tech devices and I was pissed to discover that if you drop many devices with touch screens and they crack, the crack voids the warranty. I don't know about the iPAD, but you can look into that.
If you have another means to meet the majority of comp work that you need and don't need the same in your mobile device, go for the iPAD, but make sure that it has everything that you will need it to have.
If you have a good foundation in your home comp and no need for a mobile one, I'm sure you can work around the things that I personally find to be a deal breaker for me.
My issue is your attempt to qualify it as the "lemming effect". That insinuates mindless following. The iPad success hasn't been do to mindless following, it's due to the undeniable fact that it does what it advertises and better than anything else right now. It may not be for you, but don't disparage those for whom it does, including me and my wife. Again, don't be the small man on the small hill, look at the bigger picture.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 05:29:08 PM
My issue is your attempt to qualify it as the "lemming effect". That insinuates mindless following. The iPad success hasn't been do to mindless following, it's due to the undeniable fact that it does what it advertises and better than anything else right now. It may not be for you, but don't disparage those for whom it does, including me and my wife. Again, don't be the small man on the small hill, look at the bigger picture.
Actually, X is probably right that a percentage (idk how big, we could argue this alllllll day) are..."lemmings" looking to get it, just because it's cool, it's the next big deal, etc. I know a few iPhone people who hardly use it for more than just it's phone features....which begs the question of why they got it....
King
Quote from: X on September 19, 2010, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 05:21:46 PM
While Online classes would be a good argument, I already have a desktop so I would just do classes from it.
I dunno. I'm going to see how this year works out. That will tell me if I want a laptop or not.
King
If you have a solid desk top, the iPAD might work for some of your needs. I would also check the warranty for it. I can be rough on my own tech devices and I was pissed to discover that if you drop many devices with touch screens and they crack, the crack voids the warranty. I don't know about the iPAD, but you can look into that.
If you have another means to meet the majority of comp work that you need and don't need the same in your mobile device, go for the iPAD, but make sure that it has everything that you will need it to have.
If you have a good foundation in your home comp and no need for a mobile one, I'm sure you can work around the things that I personally find to be a deal breaker for me.
Ok, I guess I should have made that clear I had a solid desktop to work off of. Figured everyone knew this.....*whistles innocently*. ;)
Personally, I don't want a mobile device at all beyond my iPhone. The iPad/Laptop "need/want" is a response to the demands of school. It's why I'm not getting one for this fiscal year as I believe I can get by without either so time will tell if I'm right or not in this decision.
Otherwise, getting an iPad for other, non-educational purposes is purely for having fun with a big iPod touch screen. I definitely have no huge need of it right now, which is why I don't have one at this time.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 05:29:08 PM
My issue is your attempt to qualify it as the "lemming effect". That insinuates mindless following. The iPad success hasn't been do to mindless following, it's due to the undeniable fact that it does what it advertises and better than anything else right now. It may not be for you, but don't disparage those for whom it does, including me and my wife. Again, don't be the small man on the small hill, look at the bigger picture.
Bryan, there are mindless followers. I know several in my life. They buy the latest big thing, then they get pissed it doesn't work right or that it drops in price. I'm not calling you or your wife lemmings, but you can't tell me that they aren't there. You can't tell me that there weren't people buying it because it's the next big thing.
I can admit that there are knowledgeable people that are buying the iPAD. Lemmings aren't the sole buying force behind the success of the iPAD. Is it hard to admit that people are buying it just because of what it is and not what it does?
See, I even said it was a success.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 05:37:10 PM
Quote from: X on September 19, 2010, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 05:21:46 PM
While Online classes would be a good argument, I already have a desktop so I would just do classes from it.
I dunno. I'm going to see how this year works out. That will tell me if I want a laptop or not.
King
If you have a solid desk top, the iPAD might work for some of your needs. I would also check the warranty for it. I can be rough on my own tech devices and I was pissed to discover that if you drop many devices with touch screens and they crack, the crack voids the warranty. I don't know about the iPAD, but you can look into that.
If you have another means to meet the majority of comp work that you need and don't need the same in your mobile device, go for the iPAD, but make sure that it has everything that you will need it to have.
If you have a good foundation in your home comp and no need for a mobile one, I'm sure you can work around the things that I personally find to be a deal breaker for me.
Ok, I guess I should have made that clear I had a solid desktop to work off of. Figured everyone knew this.....*whistles innocently*. ;)
Personally, I don't want a mobile device at all beyond my iPhone. The iPad/Laptop "need/want" is a response to the demands of school. It's why I'm not getting one for this fiscal year as I believe I can get by without either so time will tell if I'm right or not in this decision.
Otherwise, getting an iPad for other, non-educational purposes is purely for having fun with a big iPod touch screen. I definitely have no huge need of it right now, which is why I don't have one at this time.
King
Find out if your books are available in a digital format. If it is, find out how much memory you'll need for them. If the iPAD can deliver, it won't be a bad buy. If you need a laptop, go with that option.
I don't know what the textbook scene is like on the iOS, I only looked at a device with a droid OS that is supposed to have a great selection in the pipes. I would personally go with that device because it has a reader side and can run into the double digits in hours on a charge.
My wife is back in school and has decided that she wants one of those because we have two PCs, an ereader, several iPODs, a zune, and a laptop already.
Quote from: X on September 19, 2010, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 19, 2010, 05:29:08 PM
My issue is your attempt to qualify it as the "lemming effect". That insinuates mindless following. The iPad success hasn't been do to mindless following, it's due to the undeniable fact that it does what it advertises and better than anything else right now. It may not be for you, but don't disparage those for whom it does, including me and my wife. Again, don't be the small man on the small hill, look at the bigger picture.
Bryan, there are mindless followers. I know several in my life. They buy the latest big thing, then they get pissed it doesn't work right or that it drops in price. I'm not calling you or your wife lemmings, but you can't tell me that they aren't there. You can't tell me that there weren't people buying it because it's the next big thing.
I can admit that there are knowledgeable people that are buying the iPAD. Lemmings aren't the sole buying force behind the success of the iPAD. Is it hard to admit that people are buying it just because of what it is and not what it does?
See, I even said it was a success.
Dude, I have bigger fish to fry. Did you SEE the size of the scorpion I just pulle dout of my pool?!!! ;)
@X (Because I'm too lazy to quote), I will not likely get an E-Reader version of any of my textbooks this year because renting is cheaper....I think, but I will en-devour to make sure of this little fact.
Which droid OS thing are you talking about btw?
King
As suspected, looked up all my books for this term and none are available on Apple or Kindle's Stores. However, this doesn't surprise me as I had already heard that eBooks for college books are few and far between due to publishers being greedy so-and-so's. Even if I did get an iPad, there is no great chance I would even look for e-reader books. I still prefer non-electronic books at this time. This may change though, I'm arguing with myself on this. ;)
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 19, 2010, 06:51:24 PM
I'm arguing with myself on this. ;)
Well, at least you have a good chance of winning that one. :)
Bryan - That was one of the funniest responses I have read on here in a long while! Thanks for the laugh! :roflmao
Kevin
Oh wow! I've clearly been missing a treat with this thread!
Very...ah, entertaining.
I go with the religion/politics comment. This is a case where no-one will ever convince anyone else of anyting since everyone's (perceived) needs are different as are everyone's views of how this or that will meet those needs. Like it or not, 'wants' come in there somewhere too.
(For clarity, I'm not accusing everyone of trying to convince anyone else of anything. I'm simply stating it as an impossibility :))
Gene Munster, on eof the top Apple analysts on Wall Street is now modeling for 21 million iPad sales in 2011. That's simply astounding. Niche product? I think not.
iPad, Apple's 'Mac of the masses,' predicted to sell 21M in 2011
By Neil Hughes
Published: 08:00 AM EST
Related AppleInsider articles:
Apple expected to sell 6.2M iPads in 2010...
Apple stock projected to hit $300 on strength...
Piper increases first-day Apple iPad sales...
First iPad estimates: 4 million units in year...
Piper: Apple tablet no more than $700, launch...
One prominent Wall Street analyst has increased is forecast for iPad sales in 2011 to 21 million, citing expansion of the device's availability, as well as rapid adoption in the enterprise sector.
Gene Munster with Piper Jaffray said Thursday he believes the the iPad is poised to outsell the Mac in 2011. He had previously called for 14.5 million iPads to be sold in 2011, but now sees Apple selling 21 million.
"We believe the iPad represents a meaningful product category for Apple as a secondary computing device for those who already have a primary computer, a primary device for those who could not previously afford a Mac, and the first Apple product that will be a success in the enterprise," he wrote. "We see the iPad as the Mac for the masses."
His prediction is based on three factors: increased supply and expanded distribution channels, international rollout and adoption in price-sensitive markets, and uptake in the enterprise sector.
Munster said that increased presence of the iPad in retail stores will help to drive sales. Best Buy recently announced that it will expand iPad sales to all its U.S. stores this week, while Target is rumored to sell the device beginning next month.
Earlier this month, the iPad launched in China and 5 Latin American countries. In these "price-sensitive markets," the iPad is more likely to be used as a primary computing device by people who could not previously afford a Mac, Munster said.
Finally, he said the iPad has the potential to take the largest percentage of its sales from enterprise customers. He noted that the company revealed in June that more than 50 percent of the Fortune 100 are deploying or testing the iPad.
Munster believes Apple will control 94 percent o the worldwide tablet market in calendar year 2010, with 10.7 million of the total 11.3 million tablet sales for the year. In the future, he sees Android as the iPad's primary competition, as the next 3.0 release, codenamed "Gingerbread," is said to support tablet devices.
Piper Jaffray has increased its price target for AAPL stock to $390, with revenue estimates increased from $78.96 billion to $83.13 billion. The calendar year 2011 earnings per share estimate has also been increased from $16.87 to $17.75.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 10:35:02 AM
"We believe the iPad represents a meaningful product category for Apple as a secondary computing device for those who already have a primary computer, a primary device for those who could not previously afford a Mac, and the first Apple product that will be a success in the enterprise," he wrote. "We see the iPad as the Mac for the masses."
This right here is why I'm considering the iPad.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 01:53:15 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 10:35:02 AM
"We believe the iPad represents a meaningful product category for Apple as a secondary computing device for those who already have a primary computer, a primary device for those who could not previously afford a Mac, and the first Apple product that will be a success in the enterprise," he wrote. "We see the iPad as the Mac for the masses."
This right here is why I'm considering the iPad.
King
It's also why Gene Munster gets paid a few million dollars per year, to make predictive analysis about companies and their products. I have followed his research for years, he really understands the company. Unlike the shrill machinations of the techie blogosphere.
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
Well, unless Microsoft steps up their game, Apple and Linux may overtake them...7 is great and all, but it's not nearly revolutionary enough compared to their competitors.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 04:17:15 PM
Well, unless Microsoft steps up their game, Apple and Linux may overtake them...7 is great and all, but it's not nearly revolutionary enough compared to their competitors.
King
Microsoft does not have to be revolutionary in the enterprise space in this manner. Enterprises are looking to going back to "green screens". Apple has nothing to do with that. Thin clients are where large enterprises are moving to like our company. Large UCS / VMware implementations with "green screens". Just what I see at every VMware,Microsoft,Gartner and SAN convention we go to.
BTW I am an owner of multiple Apple products and I love them. Just giving you the opinion of someone that works in the IT industry. Maybe it's a different perspective....maybe not.
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:38:41 PM
BTW I am an owner of multiple Apple products and I love them. Just giving you the opinion of someone that works in the IT industry. Maybe it's a different perspective....maybe not.
Oh I hear you, I used the wrong word anyway. I should really have said safe and secure.
What do you mean by Green Screens anyway?
King
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:09:09 PM
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
..and Gene was on CNBC this afternoon discussing the very same issue. Enterprise for Apple used to be upwards of 80% biased towards the education market. They track the enterprise meetings Apple schedules and now it's 50/50 corporate/education in regards to the iPad. Trends are your friend and that trend clearly says more business's are looking at iPad regardless of what we all may see in our own corner of the world. Apple is moving into the enterprise space.
I do believe that cloud computing will be massive and you all need to look a VM Ware, Akami, Citrix, ect. Those companies, along with Apple, are ON FIRE.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:09:09 PM
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
..and Gene was on CNBC this afternoon discussing the very same issue. Enterprise for Apple used to be upwards of 80% biased towards the education market. They track the enterprise meetings Apple schedules and now it's 50/50 corporate/education in regards to the iPad. Trends are your friend and that trend clearly says more business's are looking at iPad regardless of what we all may see in our own corner of the world. Apple is moving into the enterprise space.
Well, it always has been moving into the enterprise space, there is no denying that, but just how large scale will Apple get? That's the real question. We won't find out for some time.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:09:09 PM
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
..and Gene was on CNBC this afternoon discussing the very same issue. Enterprise for Apple used to be upwards of 80% biased towards the education market. They track the enterprise meetings Apple schedules and now it's 50/50 corporate/education in regards to the iPad. Trends are your friend and that trend clearly says more business's are looking at iPad regardless of what we all may see in our own corner of the world. Apple is moving into the enterprise space.
Well, it always has been moving into the enterprise space, there is no denying that, but just how large scale will Apple get? That's the real question. We won't find out for some time.
King
What you are failing to realize is that an incremental gain into the space is HUGE form an Apple revenue standpoint in terms of growth. Apple is now the second largest corporation in the S&P my market cap. There's a REASON for that.
Lord, I have spent years on this board trying to educate everyone about Apple as a company. I have no interest in what the tech community thinks is "better" as the investing and money world doesn't. All that matters is WHERE THE MONEY FLOWS. Like the Spice from DUNE. I fell like this with you all sometimes. :wallbash: That's will be the victor. The only product even close is Android/Google.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:09:09 PM
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
..and Gene was on CNBC this afternoon discussing the very same issue. Enterprise for Apple used to be upwards of 80% biased towards the education market. They track the enterprise meetings Apple schedules and now it's 50/50 corporate/education in regards to the iPad. Trends are your friend and that trend clearly says more business's are looking at iPad regardless of what we all may see in our own corner of the world. Apple is moving into the enterprise space.
Well, it always has been moving into the enterprise space, there is no denying that, but just how large scale will Apple get? That's the real question. We won't find out for some time.
King
What you are failing to realize is that an incremental gain into the space is HUGE form an Apple revenue standpoint in terms of growth. Apple is now the second largest corporation in the S&P my market cap. There's a REASON for that.
Ahh ok, I see what your saying. (Wasn't connecting all the dots X_X) I'll grant you that.
Btw, just to diverge a bit, but did anyone hear that Facebook's CEO is now richer than Steve Jobs? That must be some nice advertising he's got behind him. Too bad for him that a majority of Facebook users use Ad Block to not see any of that.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 05:30:12 PM
Btw, just to diverge a bit, but did anyone hear that Facebook's CEO is now richer than Steve Jobs? That must be some nice advertising he's got behind him. Too bad for him that a majority of Facebook users use Ad Block to not see any of that.
King
Well, we'll see about that. FB's value is speculative as they have no equity. If they sold shares, they could create real capital, but ask the MySpace guys how they feel now.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:37:17 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 05:30:12 PM
Btw, just to diverge a bit, but did anyone hear that Facebook's CEO is now richer than Steve Jobs? That must be some nice advertising he's got behind him. Too bad for him that a majority of Facebook users use Ad Block to not see any of that.
King
Well, we'll see about that. FB's value is speculative as they have no equity. If they sold shares, they could create real capital, but ask the MySpace guys how they feel now.
Yeah, I just threw it out there, but nothing against Mark, but that is a tad overpaid. I mean, it's just Facebook.
Poor Myspace though...they are almost never acknowledged that they exist now.
King
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:28:00 PM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on September 23, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 04:09:09 PM
I don't see it in the enterprise at this point. The support costs are too high and the cost too high for what it delivers. They said the same thing for Linux and it's still far from anything Microsoft has made. Don't get me wrong I support Linux servers at work and they have their place but not for everything, same for the iPad.
..and Gene was on CNBC this afternoon discussing the very same issue. Enterprise for Apple used to be upwards of 80% biased towards the education market. They track the enterprise meetings Apple schedules and now it's 50/50 corporate/education in regards to the iPad. Trends are your friend and that trend clearly says more business's are looking at iPad regardless of what we all may see in our own corner of the world. Apple is moving into the enterprise space.
Well, it always has been moving into the enterprise space, there is no denying that, but just how large scale will Apple get? That's the real question. We won't find out for some time.
King
What you are failing to realize is that an incremental gain into the space is HUGE form an Apple revenue standpoint in terms of growth. Apple is now the second largest corporation in the S&P my market cap. There's a REASON for that.
Lord, I have spent years on this board trying to educate everyone about Apple as a company. I have no interest in what the tech community thinks is "better" as the investing and money world doesn't. All that matters is WHERE THE MONEY FLOWS. Like the Spice from DUNE. I fell like this with you all sometimes. :wallbash: That's will be the victor. The only product even close is Android/Google.
If you are talking stocks etc.. That's fine as I don't own Apple. I have an advisor for all that stuff. I don't have near the time as I would need. I am talking as someone in the tech industry that deals with large corporations throughout the states in regards to trends etc..
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
If you are talking stocks etc.. That's fine as I don't own Apple. I have an advisor for all that stuff. I don't have near the time as I would need. I am talking as someone in the tech industry that deals with large corporations throughout the states in regards to trends etc..
Yes, and you should have told him to buy Apple. And no, I am not just talking stocks, I am talking numbers. As iPad sales explode overseas, as millions of units get sold to individuals globally, how long before a CEO decides he wants his employees to have it?. You look at states, I look at the globe. Your trend analysis appears to be flawed. We can have this conversation in 2 years and see where we are. Odds are I will be right. You doubted this previously in this thread and already the facts are proving otherwise.
Just chirping in to say I'm really enjoying this debate! :)
Quote from: Bryancd on September 23, 2010, 07:41:24 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 23, 2010, 05:47:28 PM
If you are talking stocks etc.. That's fine as I don't own Apple. I have an advisor for all that stuff. I don't have near the time as I would need. I am talking as someone in the tech industry that deals with large corporations throughout the states in regards to trends etc..
Yes, and you should have told him to buy Apple. And no, I am not just talking stocks, I am talking numbers. As iPad sales explode overseas, as millions of units get sold to individuals globally, how long before a CEO decides he wants his employees to have it?. You look at states, I look at the globe. Your trend analysis appears to be flawed. We can have this conversation in 2 years and see where we are. Odds are I will be right. You doubted this previously in this thread and already the facts are proving otherwise.
LOL this is beyond fun getting people wound up when they don't agree with you. Apple is not the only stock in the world and I am doing just fine in the market thank you very much.
Forget the stock, just watch the sales. Again, there has been an appreciable increase in enterprise interest, I'm not making that up. It's cool if you don't agree, but facts is facts. The next few years will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:00:17 AM
Forget the stock, just watch the sales. Again, there has been an appreciable increase in enterprise interest, I'm not making that up. It's cool if you don't agree, but facts is facts. The next few years will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Not to point out the obvious, but I think that this whole enterprise and iPAD thing was answered way back a few pages. Bryan has said in the past that Apple, who has little enterprise presence has made some headway into the area. Now even a little headway is big for Apple because it's growth. However, when you compare that to the rest of the world, it's still not that big yet.
Quote from: X on September 24, 2010, 05:31:00 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:00:17 AM
Forget the stock, just watch the sales. Again, there has been an appreciable increase in enterprise interest, I'm not making that up. It's cool if you don't agree, but facts is facts. The next few years will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Not to point out the obvious, but I think that this whole enterprise and iPAD thing was answered way back a few pages. Bryan has said in the past that Apple, who has little enterprise presence has made some headway into the area. Now even a little headway is big for Apple because it's growth. However, when you compare that to the rest of the world, it's still not that big yet.
For sure, Chris. I just found this recent research from Munster being yet another data point showing that the growth in enterprise interest is on the increase. Going from less than 20% to 50% of all enterprise inquiries, corporate vs. education, is worthy of note. Also, as consumers buy the product, it becomes more ubiquitous, as it becomes more ubiquitous, it becomes more attractive as an enterprise platform, ect. Globally you could see adoption rates increase aggressively as the product becomes more available.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:35:05 AM
Quote from: X on September 24, 2010, 05:31:00 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:00:17 AM
Forget the stock, just watch the sales. Again, there has been an appreciable increase in enterprise interest, I'm not making that up. It's cool if you don't agree, but facts is facts. The next few years will be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Not to point out the obvious, but I think that this whole enterprise and iPAD thing was answered way back a few pages. Bryan has said in the past that Apple, who has little enterprise presence has made some headway into the area. Now even a little headway is big for Apple because it's growth. However, when you compare that to the rest of the world, it's still not that big yet.
For sure, Chris. I just found this recent research from Munster being yet another data point showing that the growth in enterprise interest is on the increase. Going from less than 20% to 50% of all enterprise inquiries, corporate vs. education, is worthy of note. Also, as consumers buy the product, it becomes more ubiquitous, as it becomes more ubiquitous, it becomes more attractive as an enterprise platform, ect. Globally you could see adoption rates increase aggressively as the product becomes more available.
The other issue that Apple is going to have in penetrating the ent is that when HP and DELL start selling similar devices at a cheaper cost Apple may have some issues. I am not saying they will make a better product than Apple, but I am saying that the way IT vendor contracts and negotiations work it's better and cheaper to have one vendor due to the STEEP discounts. You would be amazed at how low we pay Dell and Cisco for their products because we buy so much. I am not sure Apple can compete with that at this time. At least to this point they have not show that they can or are willingly.
****DARN BB Spell Checks!
HP for sure, but I have no idea what the corporate strategy or vision is over at DELL. That is a company desperate for innovation. Yeah, Apple products due to their pricepoints won't be the enterprise choice for a corporation with 1,000's of employees, but think a bit smaller, think in terms of inventory management, think the mediacal field, think white collar companies, ect. They could afford it. Also take note Apple is expanding their affiliate program allowing for the iPad to be sold through a much broader distribution channel. Apple is looking to getthese in as many hands as possible, it's a new mass merchandise model for the company and the first time they have a product so many people can afford that's not an iPod.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
HP for sure, but I have no idwea what the corporate staregy or vision is over at DELL. That is a company desp[erate for innovation. Yeah, Apple products due to their pricepoints won't be the enterprise choice for a corporation with 1,000's of employees, but think a bit smaller, think in tyerms of inventory management, think the mediacal field, think whie colar companies, ect. They could
I am in a white collar fortune 500 company. But we have 30k employees. Little different than smaller companies...
Quote from: Blackride on September 24, 2010, 07:27:17 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
HP for sure, but I have no idwea what the corporate staregy or vision is over at DELL. That is a company desp[erate for innovation. Yeah, Apple products due to their pricepoints won't be the enterprise choice for a corporation with 1,000's of employees, but think a bit smaller, think in tyerms of inventory management, think the mediacal field, think whie colar companies, ect. They could
I am in a white collar fortune 500 company. But we have 30k employees. Little different than smaller companies...
I mentioned a few pages ago that a lot of Fortune 500 companies have expressed interest in iPad and iPhone over the past year. Agin, adoption will take time, but Apple has seriously moved the ball down the field.
My friend works for a large airline loyalty program firm and all of their upper management have switch over to iPhones given the choice between Blackberries and iPhones. It's happening quicker then we all think.
Quote from: billybob476 on September 24, 2010, 07:36:31 AM
It's happening quicker then we all think.
Well, quicker than some of us think, anyway, Joe. ;)
Not sure if you guys posted this yet or heard, but the iPad will be at Target starting in October too.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/24/target_announces_it_will_sell_apples_ipad_starting_in_oct_3.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/24/target_announces_it_will_sell_apples_ipad_starting_in_oct_3.html)
Quote from: Rico on September 24, 2010, 10:10:14 AM
Not sure if you guys posted this yet or heard, but the iPad will be at Target starting in October too.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/24/target_announces_it_will_sell_apples_ipad_starting_in_oct_3.html (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/24/target_announces_it_will_sell_apples_ipad_starting_in_oct_3.html)
Right, this is part of the expanded distribution model I mentioned above. Apple's strategy is to make the ipad widely available and get it into as many hands as possible as quickly as possible. This is the Mac for the masses and the company is going mass market with it
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs640.snc4/60061_1536401444236_1060836854_3178427_6720388_n.jpg)
I think I was impressed when I saw one. :)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Rick just won this thread.
;)
King
Yep, Trek did it best!
It looks exactly the same! :jawdrop
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:07:59 PM
It looks exactly the same! :jawdrop
Of course it does Bryan. I thought you knew that all the best stuff comes from "Star Trek." ;)
Quote from: Rico on September 24, 2010, 05:29:11 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on September 24, 2010, 05:07:59 PM
It looks exactly the same! :jawdrop
Of course it does Bryan. I thought you knew that all the best stuff comes from "Star Trek." ;)
Your are correct - Trek may have been there first, but no one uses a datapad better than Rodney
Rodney makes a deal with a datapad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRrl8axw2sI#ws)
Rodney does not get enough credit as an actor. :)
King
Man, I sure do miss SG: Atlantis.
Dave, Rodney is using a store bought tablet PC.
Quote from: X on September 28, 2010, 02:44:43 PM
Dave, Rodney is using a store bought tablet PC.
Yeah, X is right. It just looks advanced because of all the Atlantis OSing going on. ;)
King
Hey, iPad owners. Is there an app for photo/picture editing that works well on the iPad? Something for basic cropping, resizing, etc.? Maybe some color adjustment too?
Photogene For IPad is a good program form photo editing.
Quote from: X on September 28, 2010, 02:44:43 PM
Dave, Rodney is using a store bought tablet PC.
Rodney plugs that tablet in to everything thank god the ancients used USB in put.
Quote from: X on September 28, 2010, 02:44:43 PM
Dave, Rodney is using a store bought tablet PC.
What? Say it ain't so!
...and next your going to say it was all just a TV show.
Well in the words of Jason Nesmith;
"Stop for a second, stop.
It's all real."
;)
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0008361/quotes (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0008361/quotes)
Quote from: Rico on October 13, 2010, 04:35:02 PM
Hey, iPad owners. Is there an app for photo/picture editing that works well on the iPad? Something for basic cropping, resizing, etc.? Maybe some color adjustment too?
Photoshop for the iPad,does all sorts of photo editing and allows you to post to FB/Twitter. Very nice app and it's free. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/adobe-photoshop-express/id331975235?mt=8 (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/adobe-photoshop-express/id331975235?mt=8)
And yea, I'm surprised it's free myself.
King
Photoshop for iPad and iPhone, and for free that's really cool. I'm definitely going to download that for my iPod, see how it works. Thanks King.
PhotoGene is a better tool actually. You can do a lot more with it. The reason PhotoShop app is free because it is more hook into photoshop.com and posting photos online and not so much focused on actual editing. Definitely give PhotoGene a try -- it is available for iPhone and iPad.
I find it amazing that you could do much of a job editing a photo on an iPod or iPhone. The screen is so small for that kind of work. I was more interested in how it's handled for the iPad.
Rick - do you find your fingers are good enough for editing work or do you use some kind of stylus on your Padd?
Leo Laporte and Sarah Lane do a fabulous iPad video podcast, iPad Today. Their first episode covers the biggest and best photo apps:
http://twit.tv/ipt1 (http://twit.tv/ipt1)
Cool! I'll check it out. Thanks!
I watch iPad Today every week. Very good show. Of course, they don't talk about all the apps that are noteworthy. I keep thinking I need to send them some of my suggestions.
Rico, I use my fingers most of the time. I do have a stylus that I have used occasionally but not as often as I figured I might.
This was news to me but I just learned that you can plug in USB keyboards and USB microphones/speakers/headphones into the USB Connector that comes with the Camera Connection Kit!
You can also use BT microsphones and keyboards and such, but I just thought it would be cool if you wanted to use a device like that which did not require power or chargers when you are on traveling for a weekend or conference or something like that.
This would be good for people who use their iPads for podcast conversations, phone calls over VoIP, or just want to amplify audio output through external speakers. And USB keyboards are really cheap compared to BT ones.
-Rick
I've finally had one of these in my hands and can see the attraction...
I'm still not going to buy one but from the point of view of a portable web terminal, I would love to since it beats anything other than a full sized monitor. In terms of sit-on-the-sofa browsing, it beats even that.
It's still too expensive, though.