As some of us have read or are reading the book, I thought it would be fun to discuss away from the Movie thread where we started talking about it. I am up to the Kobyashi Maru test scene. The initial Kelvin attack and young Spock sequences were almost exactly like the movie in terms of content and dialogue. The additional scene with young Kirk waxing the Corvette and Sam running away I though was a nice addition and really gave some teeth to his motivation for stealing the car. Since then, however, the book has followed the movie scene for scene and almost line for line. I was very disappointed that they didn't include the Nero capture by the Klingons at all. They also skipped the brief scene at Starfleet where Kirk and McCoy discuss the Kobyashi test. I am surprised that there wasn't a bit more to the book up to this point that wasn't in the film, an opportunity missed as some of this had to have been written.
there were the extended scenes with Spock's parents that gave more depth to the story as well. I think the scene with the vulcan council is far better because we get a hint at what he was thinking and his father's opinion of that.
Quote from: Just X on May 21, 2009, 08:20:20 AM
there were the extended scenes with Spock's parents that gave more depth to the story as well. I think the scene with the vulcan council is far better because we get a hint at what he was thinking and his father's opinion of that.
That's right, that was good.
Moving this over to the Book section.
I think the book reads damned good and it does well to keep with the TOS feel of character development while extending the movie experience. It was like reading a longer directors cut that gave me more of the character moments that weren't seen in the movie. It provided me with better clarity of the explanations of some things.
As a book, I liked it and as the director's cut to the movie, I loved it. There are scenes in the book that I would have liked to see in the movie, but I realize if I got my way it would be a 3+ hour movie.
I haven't gottent hat far, but I find it inexplicable that they didn't include the Rua Penthe stuff as it was filmed.
Quote from: Just X on May 21, 2009, 09:11:28 AM
As a book, I liked it and as the director's cut to the movie, I loved it. There are scenes in the book that I would have liked to see in the movie, but I realize if I got my way it would be a 3+ hour movie.
And the problem with that would be what???
;)
Quote from: Feathers on May 21, 2009, 09:28:50 AM
Quote from: Just X on May 21, 2009, 09:11:28 AM
As a book, I liked it and as the director's cut to the movie, I loved it. There are scenes in the book that I would have liked to see in the movie, but I realize if I got my way it would be a 3+ hour movie.
And the problem with that would be what???
;)
It wouldn't be making the money that it is now and would probably be a box office failure. Other than that, nothing.
Maybe they can add some of the cut stuff that was in the book into the DVD release of the movie.
Quote from: Scott on May 22, 2009, 11:14:20 AM
Maybe they can add some of the cut stuff that was in the book into the DVD release of the movie.
The Rua Penthe stuff was filmed but it's NOT in the book. Wierd. I am up to McCoy sneaking Kirk on the Enterprise. Still almost a scene by scene to the film progression with some additional dialogue.
Quote from: Scott on May 22, 2009, 11:14:20 AM
Maybe they can add some of the cut stuff that was in the book into the DVD release of the movie.
The book was great, but there wasn't really all that much in it that wasn't in the movie. In fact, some key moments from the movie are left out of the book. The one that springs to mind right now is McCoy's statement about his ex-wife leaving him with "just his bones".
The added background on Kirk stealing the car and his brother running away from home was a cool addition, though. The book explains
why he takes the car.
Quote from: wraith1701 on May 22, 2009, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Scott on May 22, 2009, 11:14:20 AM
Maybe they can add some of the cut stuff that was in the book into the DVD release of the movie.
The book was great, but there wasn't really all that much in it that wasn't in the movie. In fact, some key moments from the movie are left out of the book. The one that springs to mind right now is McCoy's statement about his ex-wife leaving him with "just his bones".
The added background on Kirk stealing the car and his brother running away from home was a cool addition, though. The book explains why he takes the car.
It was there, but the dialog was changed to skeleton. I think he was working off an earlier draft of the script.
Quote from: Just X on May 22, 2009, 07:05:36 PM
Quote from: wraith1701 on May 22, 2009, 05:36:39 PM
Quote from: Scott on May 22, 2009, 11:14:20 AM
Maybe they can add some of the cut stuff that was in the book into the DVD release of the movie.
The book was great, but there wasn't really all that much in it that wasn't in the movie. In fact, some key moments from the movie are left out of the book. The one that springs to mind right now is McCoy's statement about his ex-wife leaving him with "just his bones".
The added background on Kirk stealing the car and his brother running away from home was a cool addition, though. The book explains why he takes the car.
It was there, but the dialog was changed to skeleton. I think he was working off an earlier draft of the script.
I'm not sure how he could have been working off an early draft. The movie was already finished and in the can (so to speak) when he was given the writing assignment.
I think the novel, compared to current Trek offerings, is pretty second rate. I have said it before and I'll say it again. A fourteen year old could have written a better novel. I suppose I have gotten pretty spoiled with all the well written Star Trek novels over the last two years but with a author who has a known reputation this novel was way below parr. In fact I can almost say I hated it and I much prefer the movie. Unlike most of the other movies I much prefer the novels (not at all saying I didn't like the movies too).
Kevin
I am liking it well enough, but you do have a point, Kevin. I was hoping for something more along the novelization of Revenge of the Sith which really fleshed out Anakin's fall much better than what we saw on screen. I thought this book would be filled with some great character development and so far it's just so-so.
Quote from: Ktrek on May 22, 2009, 07:55:09 PM
I think the novel, compared to current Trek offerings, is pretty second rate. I have said it before and I'll say it again. A fourteen year old could have written a better novel. I suppose I have gotten pretty spoiled with all the well written Star Trek novels over the last two years but with a author who has a known reputation this novel was way below parr. In fact I can almost say I hated it and I much prefer the movie. Unlike most of the other movies I much prefer the novels (not at all saying I didn't like the movies too).
Kevin
I disagree. I also think that you give 14 year-olds a little to much credit in the writing department. If a 14 year-old could write that well, they'd probally have a career and contract. The same goes to any 30+ year old. there was absolutely nothing wrong with the book and when working on an adapatation, the writer has to use the actual events in the movie and it's plot. They can add a little more here and there, but do more and you get people complain about how WHOLE scenes didn't happen in the movie.
The man had his hands tied. He could only write based on the script they gave him. He didn't have the liberty to use his own creativity.
BUT the screenplay had more content. It was filmed, Chris, not a fanciful imagining of Alan Dean Foster. So where is it? I like Alan Dean Foster, loved his original ALIEN story. I don't blame him, but this book as a project of the film is not as good as it could have been.
Quote from: Bryancd on May 22, 2009, 08:45:18 PM
BUT the screenplay had more content. It was filmed, Chris, not a fanciful imagining of Alan Dean Foster. So where is it? I like Alan Dean Foster, loved his original ALIEN story. I don't blame him, but this book as a project of the film is not as good as it could have been.
It had more content? I only saw the movie once so far and read the book in a few hours. I might have missed some things. I was only looking for the changes and not the parts missing from the movie.
I really liked how they explained Nero's name and some of the other added content that I might have missed the basic content. I will defer to you on that, but I still don't see the book as poorly written. Then again, I'm looking at it from the standpoint of a writer and not just reading it for pleasure. From a writing standpoint it is very well written, perhaps it's missing some things, but I do enjoy the things that it adds. I haven't seen the movie a second time or done a second read of the book, but I'll do that and see if it revises my opinion.
Also, this is the first book that I've read that was a movie adaptation. I've read books that have become movies, but this is the first time that I've done the reverse. I don't have another book to compare it to to determine if it's a great adaptation. I do know that it entertained me and the money wasn't wasted because I enjoyed the new insights.
Quote from: Just X on May 22, 2009, 08:21:06 PM
The man had his hands tied. He could only write based on the script they gave him. He didn't have the liberty to use his own creativity.
That's funny! I guess every other Star Trek author who wrote a novelization just took advantage!
Look...I read and have read almost every Star Trek novel to come out in the last ten years and trust me when I say this was an amateurish output! I know I'm spoiled but that's what GOOD writing will do for you!
Kevin
Quote from: Ktrek on May 22, 2009, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Just X on May 22, 2009, 08:21:06 PM
The man had his hands tied. He could only write based on the script they gave him. He didn't have the liberty to use his own creativity.
That's funny! I guess every other Star Trek author who wrote a novelization just took advantage!
Look...I read and have read almost every Star Trek novel to come out in the last ten years and trust me when I say this was an amateurish output! I know I'm spoiled but that's what GOOD writing will do for you!
Kevin
Every other trek movie novel also didn't have to deal with both Paramount and Bad Robot in coming up with an approved story. While I haven't read any of the film adaptations, I'm pretty caught up with the trek novels. I respect your opinion, but I just can't be that negative about the book. The bottom line is that I enjoyed it. I read pretty much a novel or two a week. something has to capture my attention for me to continue. It did that. It was entertaining.
We just have different tastes in books it seems. I think Wheel of time was FAR better than LOTR (I liked Song of Fire and Ice better than them both). I read books one through six of Wheel of time in a week and a half. I had to FORCE myself to finish LOTR over several months. That was the only book that I've EVER read that I didn't finish in a max of three days. So I guess it's just different tastes.
Quote from: Just X on May 22, 2009, 08:52:15 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on May 22, 2009, 08:45:18 PM
BUT the screenplay had more content. It was filmed, Chris, not a fanciful imagining of Alan Dean Foster. So where is it? I like Alan Dean Foster, loved his original ALIEN story. I don't blame him, but this book as a project of the film is not as good as it could have been.
It had more content? I only saw the movie once so far and read the book in a few hours. I might have missed some things. I was only looking for the changes and not the parts missing from the movie.
Hello....tap,tap...is this thing on? ;) Yes, it had more content, the entire Rua Penthe scene! At the very least it should have been included in the book as it was written for the screenplay AND filmed even though it was cut from the movie.
I guess if Mr. Foster was working from an early draft, that can mean that he would both have unused or unfilmed scenes to include and also not have scenes that were added to later versions of the script (even if they didn't make the final cut).
I have a hard time understanding why the novelist's job for this film was any more complicated than for previous films .
As a kid, I loved the ST3 novelization by Vonda McIntyre. It seemed like the reader is 1/3 through the book before the events of the movie begins.
Some nice additional content surrounding the destruction of Vulcan and the rescue of the "elders". Gives Kirk a chance to show a more sympathetic side. Also some good stuff with Spock and his girlfriend. :)
Listened to the audio book a few days ago and Quinto does a fantastic job at bringing everything to life.