Silly question time!
Well, on Christmas day, the Space channel here in Canada ran a Trek movie marathon, playing from The Motion Picture to Nemesis. I was watching Generations and I got to thinking.
Picard is on the planet with Kirk fighting Soran.
Meanwhile, with Riker in command (and Troi at the helm :)), the Enterprise D is destroyed.
Picard never seems to be very upset with the fact that his beloved ship has been destroyed. Also he never really seems to hold Riker responsible despite the fact he was in command when it happened.
If I lent my trusted coworker my car and he totalled it, I'd be pretty annoyed. I just though Picard would have reacted a little bit more then he did.
What do you guys think?
Well I think Picard is happier that Riker saved the majority of the crew. The Enterprise is just a ship.. It's not like he drove it into the planet on purpose. :)
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on January 02, 2009, 11:17:01 AM
Well I think Picard is happier that Riker saved the majority of the crew. The Enterprise is just a ship.. It's not like he drove it into the planet on purpose. :)
Word. Its just a ship to him.
King
Kirk would have kicked Riker's butt.
That's why I like Picard better then Kirk :)
I'm sure it's a professional thing. It's not like Picard had built the ship or had any personal right of ownership over it. I'm sure it would be the same in the Navy.
Had Riked saved the ship through a deliberate act but lost half the crew as a result then I think Picard would never have forgiven him but as it is I suspect there was a bit of ribbing and not a lot else between the two.
Of course there would have been all the formal hoops and investigations to jump through.
He had been through it before with the loss of the Stargazer. But they should have learned never to let Troi drive again.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 02, 2009, 12:00:45 PM
Kirk would have kicked Riker's butt.
...and then grab the closest Yeoman and start making out, Kirk rocks. :)
I think part of him realized that if you could go back in time to stop the bad guy, it might have been better to do it before he blew up his first sun or even putting Kirk back on the B to stop him before he ever started. Once he realized he could have stopped all of those deaths if he had thought it out, he really didn't have room to be mad at Riker.
QuotePicard never seems to be very upset with the fact that his beloved ship has been destroyed. Also he never really seems to hold Riker responsible despite the fact he was in command when it happened.
Like Picard said re. the D: "There are still plenty of letters in the alphabet."
Besides, I think he was more concerned with Soran zapping the sun and wiping out a planet to divert the Nexus. Compared to the loss of a planet, I guess the ship wasn't too great a loss.
But it was a beautiful ship, though. :)
Plus he'd seen the enterprise destroyed before (did he remember) you know where we see it repeating all the time and data remembers Rykers insignia (cant remember episode name sorry)
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on January 03, 2009, 07:11:05 AM
Plus he'd seen the enterprise destroyed before (did he remember) you know where we see it repeating all the time and data remembers Rykers insignia (cant remember episode name sorry)
Cause And Effect. Very cool episode.
He saw it destroyed several times over (past, present, and future) in All Good Things, as well. :)
Ah there you see, he's got used to it ha ha
LOL. It's like loosing an umbrella; you can always pick up a new one. :)
I've read this debate on other forums and they always chalk this incodent up to "women drivers". I'm pretty sure you all know what I think of that POV... And that's why I frequent this board. No one heeeere would imply that. ;)
Keep in mind when I make these comments that I know this
"space ship accident" didn't really happen, and it's all make-believe movie stuff. That being said, I'll make this point: as you all know Troi wasn't a helmsman, she was a counselor and she had been trained as a bridge commander but that doesn't make one a great pilot. Riker knew she wasn't an "ace" when he asked her to take the helm, but it's not like he had a lot of options at the time. Point to ponder: it wasn't like the ship was in perfect working order at that time she took the helm. It probably would have gone down even if there was an able bodied pilot to take over.
As for the Captain, I think Picard looked sufficiently sad when he was going through his Ready Room after the crash, looking for his photo album. Dave has a habit of breaking my limited addition Fiesta dishes (they don't make the color that I have anymore)...I don't get mad at him for that because it only happens while he's trying to save my ceramic tile from being chipped by the falling plate (which is also ceramic). I am always disappointed, but never mad. That analogy bites doesn't it? :D
Anyway, I agree with Kenny. Riker saved the crew, which is the responsibility of the commading officer. The ship is second to the people who crew her.
Hey Jen.. I never understood why folks blamed Troi for crashing the Enterprise other then wanting to make a blatant and sexist comment of her being a "woman driver". I for one think Troi should be commended for crash landing a saucer on a planet and not destroying it. There was nothing she could have done to save the saucer, when the explosion happened it pushed that saucer section into the planet atmosphere and the only thing that could have been done was to crash land. I always thought it was cool that Troi was able to accomplish this and keep the saucer section in one piece.
That's why I put a smiley after mentioning Troi at the helm. She's a psychologist! My in-laws are both lawyers and they are both the worst drivers you've ever seen. I can't imagine them trying to dead-stick land a crashing ship!
Quote from: billybob476 on January 03, 2009, 09:22:00 AM
That's why I put a smiley after mentioning Troi at the helm. She's a psychologist! My in-laws are both lawyers and they are both the worst drivers you've ever seen. I can't imagine them trying to dead-stick land a crashing ship!
I wasn't referring to you Billybob.. Troi is blamed by many male Star Trek fans who are serious in there accusations.
I wasn't refering to you either Billybob :) I said: "other forums".
And "no one heeeere would imply that."
No hard feelings. ;)
The scriptwriters for the movies sure gravitated toward putting the hurt on the Enterprise. III (blew it up), Generations (blew up half of it, crashed the rest), First Contact (initiated auto-destruct), Insurrection (something pretty serious happened to it -- can't remember -- core eject?), Nemesis (rammed the heck out of it). Guess when you've got a big budget to play with, you can't help but want to blow up the Enterprise.
Wonder how many times they thought about blowing it up for the new one? That's it -- Pike blows it up in the first act and then they rebuild it to look like it did in TOS. Continuity problem solved. ;D
No hard feelings at all guys! I was just clarifying my position on it. Personally I think Troi was really the only one who wasn't hurt or doing something else critical to their survival, that's why she took the helm.
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on January 03, 2009, 08:47:54 AM
Hey Jen.. I never understood why folks blamed Troi for crashing the Enterprise other then wanting to make a blatant and sexist comment of her being a "woman driver". I for one think Troi should be commended for crash landing a saucer on a planet and not destroying it. There was nothing she could have done to save the saucer, when the explosion happened it pushed that saucer section into the planet atmosphere and the only thing that could have been done was to crash land. I always thought it was cool that Troi was able to accomplish this and keep the saucer section in one piece.
Nah, I don't exactly assign blame to Troi for crashing the Enterprise as a sexist, women can't drive thing. Certainly dozens of female ensigns drove the ship over the seven year run without crashing. If my memory isn't failing me, she only drove twice. And crashed the ship both times. Just a funny thing in Star Trek like if you are an Ensign and you have a red shirt and are beaming down with the main cast: You're Dead! The second time she crashed the ship, she was specifically ordered to ram the other ship by Captain Picard.
Second. She is a therapist who knows what you are thinking and dresses in a spandex leotard. I don't believe I would like that. To awkward.
Also she kept getting headaches and that was the A story of the episode. Every season!
As much as I pick on her, I have to say that she had really good moments in Disaster, Face of the Enemy, and Eye of the Beholder.
I've heard people talking about Troi, but it was mainly in a joking manner. She flew the ship twice and wrecked it both times and people do comment on that.
From a military standpoint I would say that Picard wasn't that upset because Riker was his First Officer and had every confidence in Riker's ability to command. Picard, I am sure, realized that Riker would not have made the decisions that led to the destruciton of the Enterprise unless they were the only options left to save the majority of the crew.
I can certainly understand this sentimate, about ten years ago my now deceased father-in-law parked his car to close to mine and when backing up totalled the whole driverside of my car that I had just bought and had two days.
He was so embarrassed he took off for the day and never apologized for the incident, Needless to say, Even though I was mad, I put it up to his glass eye and the fact that it was only a material object. Needless to say my girlfriend and I were married 1yr and a half later.
I will never forget hearing the sound of metal being grinded and twisted as he continued to back his car up.
I've always thought Kirk had more personal attachment to the ship than Picard.