As many of you know the DMCA is butal. It's making us rebuy movies and music that we already own each time the technology changes. I'm not advocating stealing our content, but I think if we own it we shouldn't be required to rebuy everything we own. Fair use is dying.
Our first copyright law was for 14 years and renewable once! So, Rocky, Jaws, Star Wars, the Beatles songs, and anything else over 28 years old would be public domain! If it was good enough for the founders, it is good enough for me.
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/firsts/copyright/
Quote from: AlanP on August 13, 2008, 11:09:15 AM
As many of you know the DMCA is butal. It's making us rebuy movies and music that we already own each time the technology changes. I'm not advocating stealing our content, but I think if we own it we shouldn't be required to rebuy everything we own. Fair use is dying.
Our first copyright law was for 14 years and renewable once! So, Rocky, Jaws, Star Wars, the Beatles songs, and anything else over 28 years old would be public domain! If it was good enough for the founders, it is good enough for me.
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/firsts/copyright/
That would really stink for the artists who made them. I think there should be some middle ground... I don't want to rip off the artist.
Well we do have to be fair to the artists. But there are hidden benifets to your work falling into the public domain in your lifetime. Night of the Living Dead fell into the public domain and has been reedited and remade many times over.
This only helped George Romero.
I have no issues with things not going public domain so soon. To me it's more of an issue of having digital media tied to a specific platform (i.e. iTunes). In the analog days, I believe that you were able to make copies of media you owned in different format (i.e. vinyl to cassette, beta to VHS etc etc...)
To me ripping a DVD to my iPod or converting my protected AAC music to MP3 should NOT be illegal. I don't mind paying money for an old movie if I don't have to pay for the same movie 3 times to play on 3 different devices.
Yeah I got really offended when I was talking to someone at the electronics store about backing up my VHS tape collection to DVD. He informed me that many of my tapes are copy protected and it would give me errors and would not record. There is a work around of corse.
But what he said that offended me is I should be paying for my content. So I'm thinking, "Hello!" I did! I bought so many VHS tapes it's crazy, shouldn't I be allowed to buy a blank DVD and transfer the content to keep with the times? VHS, to DVD to bluray, to ipod, how many times should we be expected to buy something?
It's a complex issue. For me, it somewhat has to do with how improved the technology is and how long it has been since the old format was around. For example, for many the move from VHS to DVD wasn't so bad. But now after just a few years they are moving to hi-def formats like Blu-Ray. I own a lot of DVD's and don't plan on replacing many of them in Blu-Ray. There is a point when it is "good enough." I think this has been a real hurdle for the hi-def formats to take hold. And if you believe some people in a few years no one will be buying discs at all and everything will be on demand and streaming. I'm not a big fan of this idea at all. Anyway, just some of my thoughts.
Ok first I'm English so i dont' really understand American copyright, but i thought i would add my thoughts just in general conversation.
At least you can play standard DVD's on Blue Ray players that is one god send. That is the reason why i didn't buy a HD DVD player. My collection is over 400 and i will not replace them. Ye Olde video tapes gawd bless em was never going to be stayer, DVD/BlueRay i think is will be here for a good 50 years or so. An as i said i think BlueRay has done the best thing by making it multi format. I am in general against the idea, being a chap who is attempting to make films i dont want my creative work being messed around with no matter how old it is. Would they do the same with books, oh hold on its 30 odd years old lets take a few chapters out. Shakespeare well he's dead lets abuse his copyright for a laugh.
Quote from: AlanP on August 13, 2008, 11:25:09 AM
But what he said that offended me is I should be paying for my content. So I'm thinking, "Hello!" I did! I bought so many VHS tapes it's crazy, shouldn't I be allowed to buy a blank DVD and transfer the content to keep with the times? VHS, to DVD to bluray, to ipod, how many times should we be expected to buy something?
Well I work in the Entertainment industry so my views may be a bit skewed. It all comes down to piracy. Yes you bought a VHS movie, you did your part. But not everyone is honest and law by-ding. They buy one VHS movie and make 1000's of copies and sell them on the black market.. how is that fair to all the folks who worked super hard in making that piece of entertainment?
This is so tricky, because we could argue in favor of those who are true to their word. However, in the end there is still piracy either way. I just don't see a solution in the immediate future. One side is always going to win. :(
King
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on August 13, 2008, 12:27:31 PM
Well I work in the Entertainment industry so my views my be a bit skewed. It all comes down to piracy. Yes you bought a VHS movie, you did your part. But not everyone is honest and law by-ding. They buy one VHS movie and make 1000's of copies and sell them on the black market.. how is that fair to all the folks who worked super hard in making that piece of entertainment?
That is a good point Kenny, but the problem with copy protection is it seems to be only slowing down honest people. Pirates already know how to get around it and are not being slowed down at all. And honest people who are wanting to upconvert the content they bought are learning how to pirate and hack. This is likely to breed a whole generation of pirates. I think in the long run copy protection will have a huge counterproductive effect on the industry.
The problem is, when you buy a piece of media, ie DVD, VHS, CD you are buying just that piece of media in that format, it's not meant to be copied or duplicated. Just because you buy a VHS/DVD/CD doesn't give anyone the right to copy it to as many formats as you want. You are not buying the movie itself.. you are buying the format in which the movie/music is on.
Actually Kenny that isn't accurate. As long as you own the physical disc still, you are allowed to rip a CD or DVD to your computer, or a portable media player, etc. for your own use. It is even built into software applications like iTunes and Windows Media Center. Now, making hundreds of copies and selling them or even giving them out is another matter.
Or showing them on oil rigs. Poor old oil rig workers.
What Are The Laws Regarding DVD Use And Duplication
By Gregg Hall
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Are-The-Laws-Regarding-DVD-Use-And-Duplication&id=283426
Because of all the laws and regulations regarding DVD duplication many people are confused as to exactly what it entails. People are even uncertain if they have, the ability to create duplicates of the DVDs you already own. The unfortunate reality is there are no solid pieces of advice when it comes to DVD duplication for personal use. The thing is, each DVD you have in your collection, even though you purchased it, is actually copyrighted, and owned by another person. You are essentially purchasing the right to use it. Within the copyright laws, which are not at all clear, it is stated that after purchase, the DVD movie can be used as defined in "Fair Use".
This means you can bring a few friends or family members over to your home to watch the movie, show it during a Cub Scout activity, or other such activities. The only provision in this aspect is that it cannot be used commercially. This means you cannot legally charge anyone to watch the movie, under any circumstances. So legally you can't ask your buddies to pay for watching one of these DVDs.
When talking about DVD duplication for personal use, the law is not at all clear. The reality is the chances of you getting into enormous trouble for taking a DVD you already own and duplicating it for your own personal use such as if, the original copy breaks or becomes unwatchable, is extremely unlikely. However, personal use is the keyword in this whole statement. If you duplicate a DVD and then lend to a friend or family member, this is a clear infraction of the fair use policy. By ignoring this policy and the copyright laws, you are putting yourself at risk of facing prosecution for the DVD Duplication.
The best advice anyone can give you is to ensure that any DVD duplicates you create are in a safe and inaccessible place for any visitors you have. If they were to get one or you were to lend one to a friend, you could be facing serious charges that include high fines and possible imprisonment. The copyright laws are in place to ensure that the owner of the copyright is protected from any types of fraud and illegal activities, which includes DVD duplication of any form. It is best to simply avoid making any duplicates of any DVD movies to protect yourself and your friends. Purchasing the movie will help in support of your favorite actors and directors.
Steer Clear Of The Law When You Are Duplicating DVDs
By Gregg Hall Platinum Quality Author
http://ezinearticles.com/?Steer-Clear-Of-The-Law-When-You-Are-Duplicating-DVDs&id=283454
Consumers today are faced with confusing decisions about the law and duplicating media. With so many free downloads available on the Internet it is often difficult to determine what is legal and what is not legal to download. With the heightening technology that is available to everyday consumers many individuals find it impossible to get a straight answer to their questions.
When is it legal?
If you buy the music can you own a copy?
How about recording movies from TV or music off the radio?
Can you legally loan your favorite movie to a friend?
Let's take a brief glimpse at the law and duplicating A DVD, and hopefully ease some of the confusion. This overview of copyrights is designed to introduce you to the basic laws that are involved in copying software, movies, music, and other copyrighted materials.
What is Protected by Copyrights?
All media forms are protected by a copyright, including: movies, music, and reading material. Copyrighting is a way to protect the owner of the work by giving them the rights to control and distribute the material. The owner of a copyright may decide to sell it for money or give it away for free.
Shareware and freeware are examples of free distributing software given to individuals by the creator of the software. These are designed and built by the company and could be sold to individuals but instead this software is given away at no cost. Every company or individual, that retains copyrights to material, has to decide the best way to distribute his or her information. Many companies find that offering free basic software will bring clients in for upgraded versions of the software. But most DVD and music copyrights are not legally free for copying.
Companies that give their information away for free are not interested in protecting their copyright. In cases such as this you can freely copy the CD or DVD, because the copyright is not protected. Other software programs are protected and the owner of the copyright will usually charge a fee to purchase the software or get a code to download the software. Any copyright holder can choose to assert their copyright.
If you copy a piece of media, such as a DVD, without the consent of the copyright holder it is illegal. You should always refer to the copyright when considering duplicating a DVD. Even duplicating copyrighted material for your own use is often illegal. Music, DVDs, and software programs are all copyrighted material that cannot be duplicated without the express written consent of the copyright holder.
Can you legally copy DVDs?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5128652-1.html
DVD copying is a controversial and highly sought-after process. Not sure if what you're doing is legal? CNET sets your mind at ease.
By Jon Jacobi, Don Labriola, and Justin Jaffe
(April 6, 2004)
Reviews
Up until February 2004, 321 Studios' hugely popular line of DVD-copying products, including DVD X Copy, DVD X Copy Xpress, and DVD Copy Plus, gave consumers the power to make backup copies of DVDs--even those with copy protection. But when a San Francisco federal judge ruled that 321 Studios' products were illegal because they circumvented commercial DVDs' antipiracy technology--not because it's illegal to make copies, mind you--the party was over. Since then, 321 Studios has released new, ripper-free versions of its line of DVD copying apps, but these programs are considerably less potent and cannot copy commercial DVDs.
The ability to create copies of the media you've purchased for personal use is a long-accepted facet of the fair-use doctrine in U.S. copyright law (at least, it used to be). However, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) states that it's illegal to break the CSS copy-protection mechanism employed by most commercial DVD movies. What does that mean? Most fair-use advocates say that the policy directly contradicts U.S. copyright law, but the DMCA seems to indicate that you cannot make a copy of a commercial DVD, even for personal use, and you certainly cannot give a copied DVD to anyone or watch copied DVD files on your computer. We assume that fair use will eventually catch up and be established as a safety valve for consumers (which has been the pattern with previous technologies, such as VHS), but for now, the territory is still uncertain and a bit dangerous.
Still, there is software out there--even freeware--that will circumvent the copy-protection schemes used on commercial DVDs and enable you to make copies of store-bought DVDs. However, CNET does not encourage or condone the illegal copying of commercial discs, and doing so places you in violation of current intellectual property law.
Now that 321 Studios' line of products can no longer copy protected DVDs, they join a competitive field of mainstream disc-copying programs that can duplicate unprotected DVDs--your own home movies, for example. Furthermore, there are a handful of inexpensive, full-featured suites that feature disc-copying components (again, of non-copy-protected discs). We've reviewed a few of them here; read on to see which are the best--and legal--to use for your copying needs.
Jon L. Jacobi is a San Francisco-based freelance writer and a frequent contributor to CNET Reviews. Don Labriola has been a frequent contributor to the mainstream computer press since 1991. Justin Jaffe is an associate editor for CNET Reviews, covering monitors, CD and DVD burners, and software.
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 01:23:15 PM
Actually Kenny that isn't accurate. As long as you own the physical disc still, you are allowed to rip a CD or DVD to your computer, or a portable media player, etc. for your own use. It is even built into software applications like iTunes and Windows Media Center. Now, making hundreds of copies and selling them or even giving them out is another matter.
That's actually not accurate either Rico.. There is no law that say you can copy your own personal DVD.. but there is a law that forbids you to circumvent the copyright protection that are on most industry DVD's.
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on August 13, 2008, 02:54:41 PM
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 01:23:15 PM
Actually Kenny that isn't accurate. As long as you own the physical disc still, you are allowed to rip a CD or DVD to your computer, or a portable media player, etc. for your own use. It is even built into software applications like iTunes and Windows Media Center. Now, making hundreds of copies and selling them or even giving them out is another matter.
That's actually not accurate either Rico.. There is no law that say you can copy your own personal DVD.. but there is a law that forbids you to circumvent the copyright protection that are on most industry DVD's.
There have been several court cases as precedents and no one has been fined or gone to jail for taking a DVD or CD (that they own) and transferring it to their computer or portable media player. And I mean no one. They have tried and failed. I mean, realistically what do they think people are doing with their laptop, iPOD's, and other portable devices? And there are plenty of tools that do nothing to the copy protection but still transfer CD's and DVD's to other devices you own. Again, perfectly fine to use.
On a more commentary note, they have been trying to fight this for years and have failed every time. Ever since the age of even just the simple cassette recorder when I used to record every new record I purchased immediately to a cassette. This both preserved the record and gave me a way to listen in the car, etc. Millions of people every day do this. They better make some bigger jails if they are going to put every iPOD owner away.
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 03:20:33 PM
There have been several court cases as precedents and no one has been fined or gone to jail for taking a DVD or CD (that they own) and transferring it to their computer or portable media player. And I mean no one. They have tried and failed. I mean, realistically what do they think people are doing with their laptop, iPOD's, and other portable devices? And there are plenty of tools that do nothing to the copy protection but still transfer CD's and DVD's to other devices you own. Again, perfectly fine to use.
Well I don't wish to argue with you Rico.. so I will choose not to continue this conversation.
Didn't mean to be arguing at all Kenny - but I'm simply a realist. I pay a lot to buy what I do in terms of DVD's, CD's, etc. as many people do. If they expect me (or frankly most people) to buy them again in electronic form I think they won't have much luck - as has been quite easily seen for many years. I mean professional magazines, web sites, etc. tell people about this and even mention in print that they do it themselves. I don't see anyone being brought up on charges from PC Magazine. I've been on a lot of airplanes full of people watching stuff on their laptops, iPODs, etc. - out in public. In almost every case when I have asked them, "hey did you buy that off iTunes? They say - Oh no, I just transferred it over from a DVD before I left my house for my trip."
People have shown for a long, long time they just won't change this habit. Now some people don't have the equipment, or the time or the skills to transfer stuff so they buy the convenience of getting it electronically. But again, many people do it themselves. And so far, no one seems to have much of a problem with it.
Here's an example, it would be like charging me to read a book (which I already bought and paid for) to read it again. Or maybe read it at the beach instead of my house. I mean, that's pretty silly. I more than support these guys. I go see the movies at the theater. I buy the DVD when it comes out. I buy the special edition when it comes out 3 months later. I might even buy the Blu-Ray for some of them. But I draw the line at buying a version of it so I can watch it on my video iPOD.
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 03:53:44 PM
But I draw the line at buying a version of it so I can watch it on my video iPOD.
You could be paying for the advertising and the process of getting the video in that format/platform. Also if even one minute of new footage or difference in the movie would consititue a different version that you may not own. If I was a large studio, I would make sure EVERY version released has one small difference. This would allow me to say that the versions are all different and hence you should pay for them :)
Quote from: Blackride on August 13, 2008, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 03:53:44 PM
But I draw the line at buying a version of it so I can watch it on my video iPOD.
You could be paying for the advertising and the process of getting the video in that format/platform. Also if even one minute of new footage or difference in the movie would consititue a different version that you may not own. If I was a large studio, I would make sure EVERY version released has one small difference. This would allow me to say that the versions are all different and hence you should pay for them :)
If a studio went to the trouble to produce that many versions of a work, I have a feeling they would soon go out of business. I think folks would probably just stick with the version they had, or acquire the alternate versions thru other means.
I personally hate the idea of anyone trying to dictate how I use my media once I pay for it. If I dish out $20 bucks or more for a DVD or CD, I consider it mine. I wouldn't feel the slightest bit guilt over making a backup copy or converting it to a format that I could play on my ipod.
Don't get me wrong; I think making a copy to sell or distribute to other folks is uncool, but making a back-up for personal use is OK in my book.
Wow, I didn’t mean to start a conflict on the boards!
All legal implications aside, I think we will be governed by our moral or ethical internal compasses.
If I were to buy a Wrestlemania pay-per-view, I feel I have every right to record it to watch again later. I don’t feel that I have the right to make 10 copies and sell them on ebay for five bucks a tape. Therefore, I personally draw the line at selling someone else’s work at a profit and pocketing their share. However, if it’s for me or a member of my household to see or hear, I feel that I do have the right of fair use to copy such work. That’s just based on nothing more than my gut feeling.
Getting back to public domain issue, many movies, albums, etc are not brought up to the current medium. How many records are there that never made it to CD? I see a lot of USB turn tables for that reason. Maybe there should be a time limit that they have to make video available in the current format or it falls to public domain. So if the studios don’t print a DVD of the 1971 classic Bless the Beasts and Children staring Billy Mumy, within X number of years of the DVD becoming dominant; the video company of Rico Kenny and Alan could aquire a print of the movie and distribute it as a public domain film. Then we could put it in the bargain bin at Best Buy. This would keep movies from the past current with the current format.
Quote from: wraith1701 on August 13, 2008, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Blackride on August 13, 2008, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: Rico on August 13, 2008, 03:53:44 PM
But I draw the line at buying a version of it so I can watch it on my video iPOD.
You could be paying for the advertising and the process of getting the video in that format/platform. Also if even one minute of new footage or difference in the movie would consititue a different version that you may not own. If I was a large studio, I would make sure EVERY version released has one small difference. This would allow me to say that the versions are all different and hence you should pay for them :)
If a studio went to the trouble to produce that many versions of a work, I have a feeling they would soon go out of business. I think folks would probably just stick with the version they had, or acquire the alternate versions thru other means.
I personally hate the idea of anyone trying to dictate how I use my media once I pay for it. If I dish out $20 bucks or more for a DVD or CD, I consider it mine. I wouldn't feel the slightest bit guilt over making a backup copy or converting it to a format that I could play on my ipod.
Don't get me wrong; I think making a copy to sell or distribute to other folks is uncool, but making a back-up for personal use is OK in my book.
Star Wars keeps getting new versions and selling more and more....
Good point, but Lucasfilm didn't make a different version available only for iPods, and another version exclusively made for DVDs. We have the original theatrical release, which is available on VHS and DVD. And we have the "special edition", which is available on VHS and DVD.
Slightly of topic but in the same core does anyone know hjow to transfere vinyl onto either a cd or my ipod. I have a quite a few jazz albums that i can't get on CD (well with the same quality) and i want to preserve them. So in essence i'm guilty of wanting to copy records but for me, preservation.
Meds - there are a few ways to get a vinyl record to your computer & iPOD. If you have typical stereo system, see if you can run an audio output line from your receiver to the input or mic jack on your sound card or sound jacks you might have on your motherboard. Then just use an application like Audacity to record the input. Another thing they make now are USB turntables that will directly interface with a computer. Good luck.
I think with music, the public domain goes into effect after 50 years. I thought it would be the same for other media.
Quote from: Rico on August 14, 2008, 04:39:02 AM
Meds - there are a few ways to get a vinyl record to your computer & iPOD. If you have typical stereo system, see if you can run an audio output line from your receiver to the input or mic jack on your sound card or sound jacks you might have on your motherboard. Then just use an application like Audacity to record the input. Another thing they make now are USB turntables that will directly interface with a computer. Good luck.
Brilliant thanks mate.