Posted by Sam on Tuesday, 20 May 2008
http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2008/05/20/netflix-tv/#more-9415
CNN — Preparing for the eventual extinction of its DVD-by-mail rental service, Netflix Inc. on Tuesday is introducing its first solution for subscribers who want entertainment delivered directly to their television sets with just a few clicks on a remote control.
The breakthrough comes in the form of 5-inch-by-5-inch device tailored for a year-old service that uses high-speed Internet connections to stream more than 10,000 movies and TV shows from Netflix's library.
Although it's provided at no additional cost to most of Netflix's 8.2 million subscribers, the streaming service has had limited appeal so far because it doesn't include the latest movies and couldn't easily be watched on anything but a personal computer.
At $99.99, the Netflix set-top box is priced like a DVD player and is just as simple to hook up to a television. A high-speed Internet connection can either be plugged into the box or the device can pick up a wireless signal.
Similar Internet-to-TV devices made by Apple Inc. and Vudu Inc. cost $229 to $295.
"We think this is something that offers a big value at a low cost," said Reed Hastings, Netflix's chief executive officer.
The Netflix box, made by Silicon Valley startup Roku Inc., is the first of several devices that will pipe Netflix's streaming service to TV sets.
LG Electronics is expected to include the streaming capability in a Blu-ray DVD player that it plans to debut during the second half of this year.
Without providing further details, Netflix has said two other major consumer electronics companies are working on set-top boxes for its streaming service.
Hastings is confident that the demand for DVD rentals will remain strong for at least several more years, partly because movie studios aren't ready to fully embrace digital distribution.
But as technology makes it easier to rent and buy movies within a few minutes instead of waiting for them to be delivered through the mail, Hastings realizes his Los Gatos-based company won't survive unless it evolves.
That's why Netflix has poured more than $40 million into its streaming service, called "Watch Instantly," and is now trying to encourage its subscribers to use it more frequently even though it doesn't generate more revenue.
If anything, the streaming service is eroding Netflix's profits because the company's licensing fees are based on how frequently subscribers use it. And any customer who pays at least $8.99 per month for a DVD rental plan gets unlimited access to the streaming service.
Because the new set-top box figures to spur more usage, Netflix expects its profit margins to be squeezed later this year. Even so, the company is still projecting a profit of as much as $83 million this year, up about 20 percent from last year. The bright outlook has helped lift Netflix's market value 16 percent so far this year.
Hastings eventually hopes to recoup some of the added expense by having to spend less money to attract and retain customers as more people enjoy the convenience of the streaming service. Netflix has no plans to start charging an additional fee for the streaming service this year.
Cowen and Co. analyst James Friedland believes the number of Netflix subscribers interested in purchasing the new set-top box will be relatively small.
Part of the problem is that few recent movies are available on Netflix's streaming service. That's a major shortcoming because nearly one-third of the rental requests on Netflix's DVD service are for new movie releases, Friedland said.
"You can't really drive consumers to do anything before they're ready," Friedland said. "You can only give them options. And Netflix seems to be trying to deliver as much as it can (with the streaming service), given the current limitations of the studios and technology."
Netflix offers more than 100,000 movies and TV shows on DVD, about 10 times the streaming service's selection.
Although the streaming device bears the Netflix brand, it's the brainchild of Roku's founder and CEO, Anthony Wood.
After temporarily leaving his startup to work on the streaming device as a Netflix employee, Wood returned to Roku earlier this year. At that point, Netflix paid $6 million for an undisclosed stake in Saratoga-based Roku. Several other former Netflix employees also work at Roku.
I love Netflix, but until almost every new movie can be streamed as well as rented this type of service won't be able to really take off.
NetFlix on-demand. The service I have now from the cable company - WideOpenWest - STINKS. Locked up all the time. I'm on Netflix now and based on their track record, their on-demand service will shine.
New deal brings many CBS genre shows to Netflix streaming - Medium, Twilight Zone, all the Star Treks, Twin Peaks http://bit.ly/heF0GE (http://bit.ly/heF0GE)
Quote from: Rico on May 20, 2008, 03:37:14 PM
I love Netflix, but until almost every new movie can be streamed as well as rented this type of service won't be able to really take off.
LOL! This post was 3 years old! I would say that prediction didn't really pan out!
Quote from: Bryancd on February 22, 2011, 04:58:04 PM
Quote from: Rico on May 20, 2008, 03:37:14 PM
I love Netflix, but until almost every new movie can be streamed as well as rented this type of service won't be able to really take off.
LOL! This post was 3 years old! I would say that prediction didn't really pan out!
Sure it did Bryan. There's a ton available for streaming now vs. a few years ago. But you know the weird thing, most Netflix users still do the DVD rental thing via mail and don't stream much even these days. But it's quickly changing.
Wow, 3 years old. Funny how Apple came out with a $99 box that does the same thing, but better. :)
I'd say Instant streaming is getting better, but its not quite there :)
King
The reason I like the DVD rental through Netflix are for the extras. You cannot get those through streaming. I hope it does happen in the future. I am currently watching all the old Dr. who, and occasionaly if a dvd is on the wait list, I will stream it and then watch the extras when I receive the dvd.
My wife, doesn't care for the extras, uses the instant service quite often. She watches mainly martial art and action movies (it's a filipino thing), she watches scifi with me and I watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li with her. Both my daughters steam movies through their Wii and I am so glad they like Scifi as much as I do.
RONZO ;D
Quote from: Ronzo on February 22, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
The reason I like the DVD rental through Netflix are for the extras. You cannot get those through streaming. I hope it does happen in the future. I am currently watching all the old Dr. who, and occasionaly if a dvd is on the wait list, I will stream it and then watch the extras when I receive the dvd.
My wife, doesn't care for the extras, uses the instant service quite often. She watches mainly martial art and action movies (it's a filipino thing), she watches scifi with me and I watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li with her. Both my daughters steam movies through their Wii and I am so glad they like Scifi as much as I do.
RONZO ;D
Well, don't get used to those extras. Studios are now thinking (and some acting on this thinking) of locking out extras of DVD/Blue-Rays to non-rental discs only. So if you get it from Netflix or Redbox, you won't get that access.
I personally think that is BS and violates some sort of consumer right, but idk. We're subject to their whims.
King
Good news about the new shows added to instant streaming. Looking forward to finally watching all the DS9 and Voyager I've never seen. Hope the price doesn't go up again anytime soon though, or they're going to price themselves right out of a customer.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on February 23, 2011, 09:55:40 AM
Good news about the new shows added to instant streaming. Looking forward to finally watching all the DS9 and Voyager I've never seen. Hope the price doesn't go up again anytime soon though, or they're going to price themselves right out of a customer.
At $8/month, I think it's a screaming bargin.
This is what digital content should cost. Same for books, music and all the rest. It's freaking digital! No manufacturing, no shipping transport cost, no store placement, etc. I really wish other companies would look at Netflix and learn something.
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on February 23, 2011, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: Ronzo on February 22, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
The reason I like the DVD rental through Netflix are for the extras. You cannot get those through streaming. I hope it does happen in the future. I am currently watching all the old Dr. who, and occasionaly if a dvd is on the wait list, I will stream it and then watch the extras when I receive the dvd.
My wife, doesn't care for the extras, uses the instant service quite often. She watches mainly martial art and action movies (it's a filipino thing), she watches scifi with me and I watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li with her. Both my daughters steam movies through their Wii and I am so glad they like Scifi as much as I do.
RONZO ;D
Well, don't get used to those extras. Studios are now thinking (and some acting on this thinking) of locking out extras of DVD/Blue-Rays to non-rental discs only. So if you get it from Netflix or Redbox, you won't get that access.
I personally think that is BS and violates some sort of consumer right, but idk. We're subject to their whims.
King
What consumer rights? You're not a consumer to them if you are renting. They lose money on that because it's not sales that they are getting. It's also in line with the previous rental agreements that they've had with other rental companies in the past. The rental company buys from them, but in a way that allows others to purchase the product with added features later.
It makes perfect business sense for all parties involved.
Heck, I'd pay $10 without batting an eye, which at this rate will be comparable to about 2 gallons of gas......
Quote from: Bryancd on February 23, 2011, 10:21:30 AM
Heck, I'd pay $10 without batting an eye, which at this rate will be comparable to about 2 gallons of gas......
ditto!
Quote from: X on February 23, 2011, 10:11:47 AM
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on February 23, 2011, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: Ronzo on February 22, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
The reason I like the DVD rental through Netflix are for the extras. You cannot get those through streaming. I hope it does happen in the future. I am currently watching all the old Dr. who, and occasionaly if a dvd is on the wait list, I will stream it and then watch the extras when I receive the dvd.
My wife, doesn't care for the extras, uses the instant service quite often. She watches mainly martial art and action movies (it's a filipino thing), she watches scifi with me and I watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li with her. Both my daughters steam movies through their Wii and I am so glad they like Scifi as much as I do.
RONZO ;D
Well, don't get used to those extras. Studios are now thinking (and some acting on this thinking) of locking out extras of DVD/Blue-Rays to non-rental discs only. So if you get it from Netflix or Redbox, you won't get that access.
I personally think that is BS and violates some sort of consumer right, but idk. We're subject to their whims.
King
What consumer rights? You're not a consumer to them if you are renting. They lose money on that because it's not sales that they are getting. It's also in line with the previous rental agreements that they've had with other rental companies in the past. The rental company buys from them, but in a way that allows others to purchase the product with added features later.
It makes perfect business sense for all parties involved.
So basically if I rent a lawnmower I shouldn't get access to its extra features because I didn't purchase it? (And there are extra features on those)
I know, two separate things, but it was the only renting-thing I could think up atm.
King
Quote from: X on February 23, 2011, 10:11:47 AMYou're not a consumer to them if you are renting. They lose money on that because it's not sales that they are getting.
Why do you assume that a rental = a lost sale? I can't imagine the movie companies look at it this way or they wouldn't offer their products in this manner. I can't even count the numerous occasions I saw something for the first time via rental and purchased it later because I enjoyed it so much and wanted it to keep.
That being said, it's been a long time practice for many companies to offer bare bones versions for rental and full featured versions for sale.
Quote from: Bryancd on February 23, 2011, 10:02:33 AM
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on February 23, 2011, 09:55:40 AM
Good news about the new shows added to instant streaming. Looking forward to finally watching all the DS9 and Voyager I've never seen. Hope the price doesn't go up again anytime soon though, or they're going to price themselves right out of a customer.
At $8/month, I think it's a screaming bargin.
Indeed, and I agree, but as I have stated elsewhere on these forums, it's the cummulative costs of all the monthy payments I make for entertainment I'm concerned with. At $10.79 a month for Netflix after taxes, that totals $129.48 a year. Not alot, but still considerable, and all I'm saying is that if the price keeps going up as they add content, streaming old movies and TV shows is probably first on my list of things to cut when I'm looking at my overall expenses.
QuoteWhat consumer rights? You're not a consumer to them if you are renting. They lose money on that because it's not sales that they are getting. It's also in line with the previous rental agreements that they've had with other rental companies in the past. The rental company buys from them, but in a way that allows others to purchase the product with added features later.
It makes perfect business sense for all parties involved.
Ah, X...not accurate. Why AREN'T you a consumer if you merely rent? A consumer is simply one who consumes the goods and services produced. Doesn't matter if you buy or rent, you're still a consumer. What in the world would you call someone who rents, if not consumer? They still use currency to pay for the services. Are then, lessors of autos or houses not consumers either? Just wondering. Although, in the NetFlix issue, I seriously doubt they're bound by any law to allow the renters see the extras on a DVD, unless of course the originator of the DVD states they shall offer them for rent unaltered. And ah, I can't see anyont losing money off of DVD rentals. Honestly, the production company makes out like crazy on those rentals.
Keep in mind the push seems to be rental across the board. For music, TV, movies, books, etc. I can easily see a time in the future where people don't buy any type of entertainment media - everything could be rented. I turn on the mega-computer-entertainment center and queue up the last episode of "The Big Bang Theory", rent a movie and a rent a book for later. All digital - no physical copy. And all encrypted and encoded to avoid pirating. It's headed this way. I personally like to "own" movies, some books, comics, etc., but that is heading for big changes that have already started.
Let go, Rico, let go...free your mind and your media will follow. ;)
Quote from: Rico on February 23, 2011, 11:53:21 AM
Keep in mind the push seems to be rental across the board. For music, TV, movies, books, etc. I can easily see a time in the future where people don't buy any type of entertainment media - everything could be rented. I turn on the mega-computer-entertainment center and queue up the last episode of "The Big Bang Theory", rent a movie and a rent a book for later. All digital - no physical copy. And all encrypted and encoded to avoid pirating. It's headed this way. I personally like to "own" movies, some books, comics, etc., but that is heading for big changes that have already started.
I just wish they weren't forcing the commercials down our throat at the beginning of the DVD/Blue-Ray. That is really making me not want to buy anything and rather get it through Netflix or other means. If that isn't violating our rights as consumers (to force us to watch the commercials at the beginning before we watch the movie that WE BOUGHT with our cash) I don't know what is.
King
I guess the thing is, at the end of the day, if I own a hard copy of Star Wars or I turn on my (as Rico puts it) mega-computer-entertainment center and select Star Wars from the streaming list, I am still watching Star Wars. That is, of course if the quality of the streamed version and the owned version are equal.
Honestly to me, optical media just takes up space. If I can have Blu-ray quality streaming and no restrictions on bandwidth and access to media, it can live on Netflix's server just as well as it can live on my shelf. We're not quite there yet (especially in Canada) but it's coming.
This is fine until the day that Netflix goes out of business, or is bought out, or whatever, and suddenly all your content goes "poof" into the ether, or is held hostage for increased subscription fees, or disappears because Big Brother decides certain content is inappropriate for whatever reason.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I actually agree with you, and have hugely curtailed my purchases of physical media over the past few years. As far as purchaees go, almost all video, all music, some of my gaming, and the absolute entirety of my print consumption has been digitally transferred via Netflix, iTunes, Xbox live/PSNetwork, Comcast, or other various sources over the past two years or more.
I think it's going to take quite some time for bandwidth to give us solid, consistent hidef streaming quality. Keep in mind, there are also working on 4K hidef. which is basically 4 times the resolution of 1080p (and of course MUCH bigger file sizes).
Personally, I'm slowly slipping more into the mode of if I can buy a hidef. copy of what I like and enjoy then I will eventually buy a physical copy. For other things I view once, streaming is ok.
As a followup to this and getting even a little more off, one thing I love about my TIVO is the ability to transfer shows to my PC hard drives. I can store hidef content and play it back when I want. The file sizes are big, but it's true 1080p and looks great. Of course, I'm going to need a big home, dedicated server soon to store all this stuff! Ahh, my next PC project! :)
That is totally awesome, although for broadcast material I'd guess you'd need to do some editing to remove commercials. I never figured out how to do what you're talking about with my Comcast DVR...I'll be advising Bryan to invest in Seagate stock if I ever figure out how to do it, considering all the hard drives I'll probably be purchasing.
Edit for questions: Can you play back the files directly from your storage device or computer, or do you have to transfer them back to the Tivo? If you have to transfer, how long does the process take to transfer say a two hour movie?
pssst! Looking for an investable idea for the future that's in the space you guys are discussing? Look to the "cloud"... ;)
Quote from: Bryancd on February 23, 2011, 01:08:16 PM
pssst! Looking for an investable idea for the future that's in the space you guys are discussing? Look to the "cloud"... ;)
Which is limited by your bandwidth. For me, the cloud works up to pictures, but Video is touch and go because my internet service is crap.
One day...
King
This is the bottleneck at this point. It's not even a question of speed, it's a question of arbitrary transfer limits set by providers. I pay extra to have 75 GB of transfer a month, that's not nearly enough to stream a reasonable amount of full HD.
I guess the point that I have trouble with is this: I can leave my TV on all day receiving whatever broadcast I want. I pay the same if I do that or if I never turn my TV on once. I pay for access to the content, not how much of it I access. With netflix and other streaming services, I pay for access to the content and then I am penalized by my ISP if I access "too much" of that content.
Quote from: QuadShot on February 23, 2011, 11:20:01 AM
QuoteWhat consumer rights? You're not a consumer to them if you are renting. They lose money on that because it's not sales that they are getting. It's also in line with the previous rental agreements that they've had with other rental companies in the past. The rental company buys from them, but in a way that allows others to purchase the product with added features later.
It makes perfect business sense for all parties involved.
Ah, X...not accurate. Why AREN'T you a consumer if you merely rent? A consumer is simply one who consumes the goods and services produced. Doesn't matter if you buy or rent, you're still a consumer. What in the world would you call someone who rents, if not consumer? They still use currency to pay for the services. Are then, lessors of autos or houses not consumers either? Just wondering. Although, in the NetFlix issue, I seriously doubt they're bound by any law to allow the renters see the extras on a DVD, unless of course the originator of the DVD states they shall offer them for rent unaltered. And ah, I can't see anyont losing money off of DVD rentals. Honestly, the production company makes out like crazy on those rentals.
You aren't a consumer of the DVD studio. Having worked in video rentals and managed a store or two in my day, the studios have never really been happy when second hand parties renting out their products. To resolve that, they came up with some pretty exorbitant licensing agreements to cover what they felt was a loss in sales to people renting. They don't see any of the money from rental services and rental companies made a killing.
To fix this issue, they were charging upwards of hundreds of bucks per item to various rental stores. They figures that if they charged ten times the amount to the rental company, the company could make it up on rentals and they wouldn't be losing money over all.
A renter is a consumer for the rental company, but not for the manufacturer and production house. They don't see any of the money that you are paying to rent a product and thus aren't required to give you the bells and whistles. For the rental companies, it's a pretty cool business. They make their money and then well after the movie has more than paid for itself, they can sell it previously viewed for even more money.
I think that this is why companies are moving more to the digital rental. This is money that they get a piece of and that appeals to them.
It's also part of the reason why they are including extra features when you buy some digital copies.
To combat the rental and PV sales, this is why video game companies are packaging exclusive one use only codes in their products now. If you buy a used copy, you have to still pay them something for access to some of the major game features.
Rico .. question for you. My Tivos are blocked from transferring premium channel programming. Is that the same with yours?
So basically they have the same problem that the major gaming companies have with Gamestop and Steam. Interesting.
King
Quote from: Kingisaaclinksr on February 23, 2011, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: Ronzo on February 22, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
The reason I like the DVD rental through Netflix are for the extras. You cannot get those through streaming. I hope it does happen in the future. I am currently watching all the old Dr. who, and occasionaly if a dvd is on the wait list, I will stream it and then watch the extras when I receive the dvd.
My wife, doesn't care for the extras, uses the instant service quite often. She watches mainly martial art and action movies (it's a filipino thing), she watches scifi with me and I watch Jackie Chan and Jet Li with her. Both my daughters steam movies through their Wii and I am so glad they like Scifi as much as I do.
RONZO ;D
Well, don't get used to those extras. Studios are now thinking (and some acting on this thinking) of locking out extras of DVD/Blue-Rays to non-rental discs only. So if you get it from Netflix or Redbox, you won't get that access.
I personally think that is BS and violates some sort of consumer right, but idk. We're subject to their whims.
King
Not only are they locking you out on the extras on the new DVDS, but on some you have to watch the previews and cannot skip to the menu. Now renting is one thing, but if you buy the DVD and still have to watch them again. This is especially bad when it is a series and you watch one or two episodes. Don't get me wrong I like watching the previews, it gives me ideas on what I might put on my queue, but not everytime I put the disc in.
Good business sense or not, are they going too far? Look, they make you wait 30 days days before you can get a new release. As a consumer, I take my family to the movies, not as much as I wish since we have very busy lives, and I buy several DVDS each year. What is next, the price of renting a new release is higher until it has been out for X number of months? Just my 3.14 cents worth.
RONZO ;D