Soo this is where I go to school...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBEgjqylroE
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/NEWS01/804070343&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
Sorry should say the video is NSFW due to language.
Dude, you Dad isn't going to like this being on the forums.....
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 04:05:00 PM
Dude, you Dad isn't going to like this being on the forums.....
LOL He already said our riot was nothing since it was only about 5,000 people.. And besides I wasn't involved since I may make stupid decisions, but I am not a stupid person.
Wow.. that's pretty sad.. I don't mind folks partying, but when they start to destroy property (ie street signs) then it goes to far.
LOL! Oh, I know it's has nothing to do with you and it really is sad. It is so interesting how things have changed from my parents time, to my and your Dad's time, and now in terms of what we consider to be outrageous behavior. When I was in college in Boston in the late '80's, getting drunk and rowdy, sure, but we didn't have the violence. We also didn't have the girl exhibitionist elements. I wonder what is says about us as a culture that in order to have fun it requires such extremes?
No problem with this being posted. A few idiots (and many not even from MSU) don't mean everyone there is also an idiot. The smart people didn't even go - like my son! ;)
Bryan the 60's were all about riots and exhibitionists. I know that and I wasn't even alive back then. :D
It's the herd mentality, half of those people have no idea what's going on... there just there to because everyone else is.. and to be seen with everyone else. Pretty stupid for "smart people".
Quote from: Jen on April 07, 2008, 04:41:45 PM
Bryan the 60's were all about riots and exhibitionists. I know that and I wasn't even alive back then. :D
It's the herd mentality, half of those people have no idea what's going on... there just there to because everyone else is.. and to be seen with everyone else. Pretty stupid for "smart people".
For sure, but the context was totally different. Exhibitionism, in the hippies and flower child types (my Mom was one) were about expression and love. The protest and occasional rights revolved around Vietnam and Civil Rights. It wasn't violence for violence sake. You see behavior like this following sporting events as well, events around a celebration which turn ugly. That didn't happen back in in '60's or '70's, which I do remember.
Actually Bryan, towards the end of my time at Michigan State there was plenty of pretty crazy parties like this. This was when this particular annual party really got started. Culture kind of circles in waves. I don't think it's any better or worse than in my day there. One issue I constantly say to people is due to the internet we just hear about things a lot more than ever before. But I truly don't think things are any worse. And in some ways I think things are better. But it's always just up to the individual. You decide for yourself what type of person you will be. Are you going to be a lemming and jump off a cliff or act stupid just because everyone else is? I'm pretty sure (and hope) the two sons my wife and I raised know better at least. And for me, that's the most important thing.
I'm with Rico. My mom was a hippy too and they didn't do everything for "love". She never did anything like that but there were stupid people back then too. Stupid people do stupider things when they're drunk or high or out for attention and it doesn't matter what era your from.
Yep. But they just didn't have a video camera, the internet and Youtube to share it immediately with the world! LOL!
Certainly we will all have different personal experiences. I never saw any of this in Boston, I never knew anyone who went to a school where they had a riot with police showing up with tear gas. It's not an indictment of Michigan (Go Blue!)I just don't agree that things are the "same" now, for many of the reasons you mention Rico. It's all over our popular culture, the internet, it's hard to say that things are the same. It's a good debate however and I'm glad you left this up.
I agree with Bryan.. I feel things are worse now then when I was a kid. Case in point, the high school I went to had very few problems, a few vandals and some drug busts. Now they have metal detectors, and closed campus and I head last year there was a huge gang battle and many many drug busts.
Times are changing, but you are right Rico we hear about it more and more these days.
Quote from: Rico on April 07, 2008, 05:05:52 PM
Yep. But they just didn't have a video camera, the internet and Youtube to share it immediately with the world! LOL!
x2, that's for sure and I don't think it's a good thing. My younger brother, 18, and sister, 16, have seen things online that I would NEVER have seen at the same age growing up. How can that not have a huge impact?
This is my gripe is that there are few bad apples (about 100) that were ready to sit out in the middle of Cedar Street until the Police started firing the tear gas. These are the kids that wear getting tear gassed, thrown in jail, arrested, as badges of honor. It is really sad because Cedar Fest at the beginning of the night from about 7-11 was just an enjoyable time. Kids were having fun, drinking, cooking burgers, just enjoying themselves. Then the alcohol started to sink in a little bit, and the kids who wanted the tear gas started to get that liquid confidence and all of a sudden we have a full on riot on hand.
Michigan State is always and will always be known as a party school for the riots that occurred in 01,05 etc. Which in fact less that 5% of the student population participated and only 50% of the arrests were in fact MSU students.
Quote from: MSUFan on April 07, 2008, 05:29:52 PM
This is my gripe is that there are few bad apples (about 100) that were ready to sit out in the middle of Cedar Street until the Police started firing the tear gas. These are the kids that wear getting tear gassed, thrown in jail, arrested, as badges of honor. It is really sad because Cedar Fest at the beginning of the night from about 7-11 was just an enjoyable time. Kids were having fun, drinking, cooking burgers, just enjoying themselves. Then the alcohol started to sink in a little bit, and the kids who wanted the tear gas started to get that liquid confidence and all of a sudden we have a full on riot on hand.
Michigan State is always and will always be known as a party school for the riots that occurred in 01,05 etc. Which in fact less that 5% of the student population participated and only 50% of the arrests were in fact MSU students.
Please don't misunderstand, this is NOT an indictment of your school, which rocks. It's just that your school is BIG and has a huge swath of demographic represented. A few "bad apples" is what we are discussing, but the question is are there more "bad apples" who want that kind of thrill now versus previous generations.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 05:12:10 PM
Certainly we will all have different personal experiences. I never saw any of this in Boston, I never knew anyone who went to a school where they had a riot with police showing up with tear gas. .
I'm glad you had a good experience in Boston, but during the same time, my father-in-law was here he said that there were often riots. There is a book called, aptly enough, 'Boston Riots'. There were tons of them in the 60's and 70's for various reason.
I don't think that the world has really changed that much. I think that incidents that would be regional news in the past is now national news and it simply appears that things have gotten worse. It seems like every few years there is always some sort of riot in Boston.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 05:33:24 PM
Quote from: MSUFan on April 07, 2008, 05:29:52 PM
This is my gripe is that there are few bad apples (about 100) that were ready to sit out in the middle of Cedar Street until the Police started firing the tear gas. These are the kids that wear getting tear gassed, thrown in jail, arrested, as badges of honor. It is really sad because Cedar Fest at the beginning of the night from about 7-11 was just an enjoyable time. Kids were having fun, drinking, cooking burgers, just enjoying themselves. Then the alcohol started to sink in a little bit, and the kids who wanted the tear gas started to get that liquid confidence and all of a sudden we have a full on riot on hand.
Michigan State is always and will always be known as a party school for the riots that occurred in 01,05 etc. Which in fact less that 5% of the student population participated and only 50% of the arrests were in fact MSU students.
Please don't misunderstand, this is NOT an indictment of your school, which rocks. It's just that your school is BIG and has a huge swath of demographic represented. A few "bad apples" is what we are discussing, but the question is are there more "bad apples" who want that kind of thrill now versus previous generations.
O I know, I was just saying it as my 2 cents about the whole thing.
Quote from: Just X on April 07, 2008, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 05:12:10 PM
Certainly we will all have different personal experiences. I never saw any of this in Boston, I never knew anyone who went to a school where they had a riot with police showing up with tear gas. .
I'm glad you had a good experience in Boston, but during the same time, my father-in-law was here he said that there were often riots. There is a book called, aptly enough, 'Boston Riots'. There were tons of them in the 60's and 70's for various reason.
I don't think that the world has really changed that much. I think that incidents that would be regional news in the past is now national news and it simply appears that things have gotten worse. It seems like every few years there is always some sort of riot in Boston.
They were labor related, not kids in college.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 05:44:11 PM
They were labor related, not kids in college.
Actually, there were labor riots, school riots due to busing, race riots, and a host of others between the 1960's and the 1980's. While they specifically say that teens and adults were involved in the school riots, it doesn't say that there were specific people from specific schools, but if logic holds and teens and adults are involved in the rioting, I'd have to assume that college aged kids were also involved because of the nature of a riot.
Quote from: Rico on April 07, 2008, 04:46:40 PM
Actually Bryan, towards the end of my time at Michigan State there was plenty of pretty crazy parties like this. This was when this particular annual party really got started. Culture kind of circles in waves. I don't think it's any better or worse than in my day there. One issue I constantly say to people is due to the internet we just hear about things a lot more than ever before. But I truly don't think things are any worse. And in some ways I think things are better. But it's always just up to the individual. You decide for yourself what type of person you will be. Are you going to be a lemming and jump off a cliff or act stupid just because everyone else is? I'm pretty sure (and hope) the two sons my wife and I raised know better at least. And for me, that's the most important thing.
Seemed like every weekend Cedar Village was on fire. Eventually, they started to frame the furniture with steel and bolt it to the floor. It was the one side of MSU which was embarrassing. If it were up to me, every one of them would be expelled.
Well, I have kids in the middle of it and a wife who is a high school teacher. So I have a pretty good feel for the way things are currently. The vast majority of them are great kids. Most, smarter than we ever were.
Quote from: Rico on April 07, 2008, 06:58:04 PM
Well, I have kids in the middle of it and a wife who is a high school teacher. So I have a pretty good feel for the way things are currently. The vast majority of them are great kids. Most, smarter than we ever were.
Careful now, none of us can speak in absolutes, myself included, it's just opinion, but makes for interesting conversation. :)
Quote from: Just X on April 07, 2008, 05:50:41 PM
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 05:44:11 PM
They were labor related, not kids in college.
Actually, there were labor riots, school riots due to busing, race riots, and a host of others between the 1960's and the 1980's. While they specifically say that teens and adults were involved in the school riots, it doesn't say that there were specific people from specific schools, but if logic holds and teens and adults are involved in the rioting, I'd have to assume that college aged kids were also involved because of the nature of a riot.
I wouldn't agree with that conclusion, but it's a valid conjecture.
Yes, good topic. To me, a riot is bad no matter what. Whether it's race related, labor related or a bunch of miscreants drunk off their rear ends... there's absolutely no call for it.
Quote from: Bryancd on April 07, 2008, 07:36:08 PM
Quote from: Rico on April 07, 2008, 06:58:04 PM
Well, I have kids in the middle of it and a wife who is a high school teacher. So I have a pretty good feel for the way things are currently. The vast majority of them are great kids. Most, smarter than we ever were.
Careful now, none of us can speak in absolutes, myself included, it's just opinion, but makes for interesting conversation. :)
Didn't think I spoke in absolutes. I see words like 'vast majority' and 'most' in my words. I have two sons. I have taught in both middle school and high school. My wife has been a high school teacher all of her career. I have traveled in buses to Washington with students and gone on other field trips with them. I am speaking from my experience - not from things on the news, the internet or in the papers. And I still say the vast majority of them are great kids.
P.S. But if you want to research this type of thing online - feel free. You will find that violent crime has been declining for decades for the youth population. Here are couple links to get you started:
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/national-statistics.html
http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/myth/myth.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVdtvBN-iEI&eurl=http://www.spartantailgate.com/forums/msu-red-cedar-message-board/309021-going-school-msu.html
Watch this very well done by these two students.
Nicely done. They need some better audio equipment and should of done a few close ups. But that's just the movie guy in me talking. Good for them for posting something positive and putting things in perspective.
I've never understood why people at MSU and OSU felt the need to riot. I went to Wisconsin, and in my 5 yr tenure there were no riots. None.
It always seemed like there's an annual riot at MSU.
If you dig into this story, it was a very small group involved. So I think you are generalizing. And frankly calling it a riot is pretty inaccurate. In most cases the few involved in this are only looking for some media attention. Which, thanks to the media, internet, etc. they got it.
I didn't mean to generalize, I'm just going on what I can remember.