How cool is this.. I wish there was a bigger picture of it.
So Six is Jesus> I kinda figured Baltar was the Jesus figure here.
No Dee in the picture either, she must really be on the outs with Apollo, since Anders is with Starbuck
I personally find the pic offensive Kenny. As a Christian I have to view this type of thing as sacrilegious and blasphemous. If I had posted a pic like this that made fun of gays would you not be offended? Some things are better left unposted. It shows a lack of sensitivity for those of us who are Christians on the board.
Kevin
Though I cannot speak for Kenny, I am more then confident his intention in posting this picture was not to offend anyone.
Ktrek-
This has been on the net for awhile now. I think it's an interesting picture. And it is not making fun of anything - in my view. No insult was intended certainly by Kenny or even the artist that took the photo and created the scene. They are many examples of art imitating other art over the years. If done tastefully I see no problem with it. I took several art history courses in college and you might be shocked at the influences artists get from each other.
Wow Kevin... I'm sorry that you were offended by this.. it obvious that I didn't post this to hurt the feelings of Christians on this board.
I saw the picture and thought it was pretty cool. I didn't see it as making fun of the Christian faith.
But you might be right and I'm just an insensitive gay man....
And one other thing.. if you watch BSG "God" and religion are a big part of the series. So the picture seems to fit.
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on March 04, 2008, 02:52:04 PM
And one other thing.. if you watch BSG "God" and religion are a big part of the series. So the picture seems to fit.
Hence my previous comment regarding Baltar as a Jesus figure.
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on March 04, 2008, 02:49:51 PM
Wow Kevin... I'm sorry that you were offended by this.. it obvious that I didn't post this to hurt the feelings of Christians on this board.
I saw the picture and thought it was pretty cool. I didn't see it as making fun of the Christian faith.
I know you personally didn't mean to offend Kenny and I know it was not your intention. I just feel that The Last Supper is a painting that has long been revered by Christians for it's depiction of the last supper of Christ. When artists take the scene depicted by da Vinci and do something like this it makes a mockery of Christ, whether directly or indirectly, and shows their lack of spiritual feelings and reverence for holy things. I am not saying that da Vinci's original painting is holy but the scene of what it portrays to Christian's is holy and not something to be made a mockery of no matter how well intended.
Kevin
I'm offended by the posted image, since it shows women in a sinful state of undress.
Well, not really, but I'm sure it would be offensive to someone on that basis.
I think it's an extremely interesting image, and I'm thankful that Kenny posted it.
If you follow the link there is a kind of explanation of each person in the picture.. it's pretty good.. gives minor spoilers for season four.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/1,,20169703,00.html
Quote from: pickard on March 04, 2008, 04:41:09 PM
I think it's an extremely interesting image, and I'm thankful that Kenny posted it.
I guess my question would be...thankful to whom?
Kevin
I will certainly call this image far from a "mockery" Kevin. And again no harm was intended. So if you don't care for the image, that is fine. But it seems most of the rest of us find it at least interesting as it relates to BSG.
Quote from: Ktrek on March 04, 2008, 04:44:38 PM
Quote from: pickard on March 04, 2008, 04:41:09 PM
I think it's an extremely interesting image, and I'm thankful that Kenny posted it.
I guess my question would be...thankful to whom?
Kevin
By the Lords of Kobol, obviously, I'm thankful to Kenny for posting it.
And as always, all praise to the dark lord, Count Iblis.
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on March 04, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
If you follow the link there is a kind of explanation of each person in the picture.. it's pretty good.. gives minor spoilers for season four.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/1,,20169703,00.html
That was interesting. I can't wait until BSG starts back up. Thanks again, Kenny.
Thanks for posting the picture Kenny, I know that some did not care for it, but I did not find it offensive. This picture gives me something to think about for the upcoming season of BSG, not sure if I will read the article as I don't want to be spoiled. I appreciate Ron Moore and the producers of BSG to be willing to tackle some sensitive topics in the show, certainly gives a person a lot to think about.
You know, as a minister I never said my two cents on this picture.
I don't know. I'm not much of a traditionalist. I mean, they aren't mocking Jesus that I can tell. They are copying a painting. I know this may sound kind of wierd, but I highly doubt the original painting was entirely accurate in the first place. Who all sits on one side of the table?
My point is, if Baltar was on a crucifix or something I might look at it and say... whoa.. a little to much for me.. but this picture didn't raise any dander in me. I can't tell you why, maybe cause they aren't doing anything that mocks my faith. I mean the only real criticism is that Six needs some clothes. But I digress. :) Some like that about her! :) My wife's not to fond of her clothing choice. I try to honor Amy, so I'm not getting the poster anytime soon.
Anyway, I think there are bigger battles to fight. Artistic vision is in the eye of the beholder. I don't always agree on the things that people do. I wouldn't have chosen to do that, but hey, who am I? Not the producers or promotion department for BSG.
Very sensible and well said Rick.
I agree Rick, however if I were the producers or promotion department, I would do something like this if only because it sparks up conversations like this.
From what I understand of the tv/movie industry, any publicity is good publicity.
I Myself also being a Christian, can really find no mockery of this towards the painting of The Last Supper, as it is so loosely based on the painting and it is not Even slightly accurate.
I think their would be more of an Argument over the Da Vince Code then this, as it made allot of suppositions and insinuations that could not be backed up, and it was also a work of fiction. I think more people had a problem with that, and did compared to this.
This reminds me more of a disfunctional family, that you see in some holiday movies then The Last Supper. Perhaps the Picture is more in line with having a double meaning that strictly relates to BSG which people will not understand until they see season 4.
In any case, I think people will read what they want out of it, if anything it opened up a dialog on religion and although we may not all agree with the picture, it made all of us think about our own religious convictions, and will cause us to become more firm in our convictions, perhaps question them, or make no difference what so ever.
I think in this case, we have to look at the spirit it was presented in, on a sci-fi forum and draw our own conclusions and realize, this photo was not posted to mock or make fun of another's religion, but foster open dialog on a show we all love.
iceman
Angela and I just did a podcast on this very topic. We think there are symbols and hints in this graphic that could give us a peek into what is going to happen this season. Here's a link to the episode where you can listen online.
http://www.anomalypodcast.com/podcasts/AnmlyApr308.mp3
I thought this was a very interesting article.. not sure I believe it but interesting none the less.
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/bsg_original.jpg)
The Battlestar Galactica Code: The Last Cylon
by N.E. Lilly & Logan Gawain ©2008
"You already know the answer to these questions. It's all right there. Just examine every episode closely and the truth will emerge. Or break out a magnifying glass and go over that Last Supper photo one more time. Ron Moore laid it all out for you." — David Weddle, Interview with SyFy Portal
SPOILERS*
The Revelation by N.E. Lilly
I've only become recently bound up in the knotty problem of the Battlestar Galactica "Last Supper" image. As a designer, the image seemed staged. People weren't just standing there, acting their parts — they were placed; from the positions of the groupings to the unnatural positions that they were holding. Not just the people, but certain items on the table as well. The image reminded me, on a sub-conscious level, of a Highlight Magazine picture search, a MAD Magazine fold-in, and a Da Vinci Code style hidden image all rolled into one.
MAD Magazine Fold-in
Here is a sample MAD Magazine fold in. It's a very popular feature for the magazine...
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/foldin-b.jpg)
...because, by folding points A and B together, you come up with a new image, with an altogether different meaning:
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/foldin-a.jpg)(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/foldin-c.jpg)
Battlestar Galactica: The Last Cylon
Someone is indeed absent from the table, admits Moore: "We have not yet revealed the final [unknown] Cylon." Does that mean the people already at the table aren't the final cylon? Moore laughs. "You ferreted that out pretty slyly. I didn't really want to give that away." — Entertainment Weekly
Entertainment Weekly did an excellent job of highlighting the different elements in the image, and what significance they hold in the series.
First I approached the image from the aspect of a MAD Magazine fold-in. Dividing the image into quarters, and folding along those lines produces a striking image — but it felt incomplete.
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/bsg_foldin.jpg)
That's when I turned to analyzing it in a similar fashion to Da Vinci's The Last Supper. As mentioned before, the configuration of the figures troubled me. What also troubled me was the fact that the two glasses were exactly on the same line. It seemed too unusual — especially when you take into consideration the two glasses of water on the table, which, all too conveniently could form registration points for a fold-in image. The rest follows from artist intuition. The two glasses were the same shape, on the same line, and transparent. I proceeded to lay one glass over the other and set the one layer to roughly the same percentage as one glass is less than the other. And my heart jumped at the image that was produced. The majority of the image was a jumble of imformation, but the center of the image produced a clear result:
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/bsg_overlay.jpg)
The relation between Kara and Lee and between Tyrol and Baltar is too good of a fit to be coincidental. It places Kara squarely in front of the grail. The image still felt incomplete, however. I then struck upon the idea of trying to merge the two images. That produced a much more complete composition.
(http://www.spacewesterns.com/i/articles/61/bsg_composite.jpg)
At the end of what I felt that I could conceivably accomplish. It seemed that if there were secrets buried deeper in the image than I could divine. I stumbled across a major revelation, but not having watched the show as religiously as I could have, I contacted the good people at Galactica Sitrep. ProgGrrl didn't want to be potentially exposed to spoilers, so her counterpart Logan Gawain stepped in.
After doing some research and reading in the Entertainment Weekly article the very coy answer about the grail (note that Moore doesn't simply say "no"), I felt that Kara should be the last Cylon. I'm sure that there are still more mysteries waiting to be uncovered, but this, I believe is the primary one.
Images Explained by Logan Gawain
While I firmly believe Nathan has discovered an important key to understanding the BSG Last Supper image, I am not as prepared to conclude any single meaning from it. Rather, I see multiple interpretations.
But, I do agree that the glasses of water probably are a marker that when lined up reveal something important, perhaps even crucial to understanding any meaning in the photo. And the perfect alignment of the glass of water and other elements proves to me that either this is the way the image has to fit, or it's one amazing and wild coincidence. Just look at how exactly every element fits rather precisely, as if it's meant to fit that way. For instance, does Chief Tryol's position change to now holding the knife at Baltar's head foreshadow a final confrontation between the two of them? The number Six, known as Natalie who is leading the Cylon rebellion against Cavil's faction, in this positioning is now pointing directly at Tyrol. Does that convey some special meaning, or deeper understanding?
Do the merging of the two glasses of water themselves represent an important metaphor, or foreshadowing? The glass of water by Anders is full. The glass of water near Baltar is nearly 3/4ths full. It might mean something in of itself, I just don't know what.
Kara, Lee, Anders: Notice how it now appears that Kara is looking at Lee. In the repositioning Anders sits with his arms around both Lee and Kara almost in a group hug, or family portrait, while he kisses Kara. Is he, in this image, handing off Kara back to Lee, and letting her go? (Kara/Lee 'shippers take note!) Also notice how the book that is in front of Kara, now fits perfectly under the chalice or grail. What's the meaning of relationship between the book, and the grail?
Yes, Kara sits directly before the grail. But, that doesn't not have to mean she's the final Cylon. Instead it may in fact mean that she's the savior of mankind. Or it may also mean that the 5th Cylon has a unique relationship to Anders, Kara, and Lee. Still, could Kara Thrace be the final Cylon? Maybe she could be. I want to find more clues in the show itself as the episodes play out, before coming to a conclusion. Does the First Hybrid's prophesy from "Razor" provide any clues?
At last, they've come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised-land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning. — The Hybrid, Battlestar Galactica: Razor
Clearly, the Hybrid spoke of things we've already seen, such as the occupation of New Caprica, the Four discovering their true nature, and the emerging Cylon civil war. Other events prophesied remain shrouded in mystery: What will be the "unthinkable" but "inevitable" way forward? Why is the fifth Cylon still in shadow, "hungering for redemption"? And who, or what, would be considered "wings of an angel" that will gather everyone at the "promised land"? In "Maelstrom" Starbuck gave to Adama the figure of Aurora, the Goddess of the Dawn. Does Kara's positioning next to the challis reaffirm her role as savior, as Aurora, leading the way to their new home? Or, is she a false prophet, as as the First Hybrid prophesied to Kendra Shaw in Razor, who will "lead the human race to it's end. She is the herald of the apocalypse. The harbinger of death. They must not follow her."
I agree that this photographic discovery is an important find, and will add to the lore around the Last Supper image. But, it's too early to draw any one conclusion to solve all the deep mysteries and mythology involved. I'm sure more is to be discovered before all is revealed. But, this new insight opens up many new avenues to explore.
Wicked AWESOME.