Since this is a paperback, maybe we want to increase the pages per week. Lets see how the first week goes.
That might not be a bad idea. It's a very quick read; looks like I'll be finished reading it this weekend.
Maybe kick it up to 150 pages/week?
If you kicked it up to 114 pages that puts you through chapter 7 for the first week. Chapter 14 for the second week and finishing up the 3rd week. Makes it a little more equal then anyway. Or if you want something even simpler then you could just do a chapter divide by 3 since there are 24 chapters and go 8, 16, 24.
Anyway, I'm eager to start discussing the book and I hope that everyone will get involved. I think the book provides fodder for some thought provoking matter.
Kevin
Bantha fodder?
Quote from: billybob476 on January 04, 2008, 08:23:37 AM
Bantha fodder?
LOL! :roflmao
E-Chuta!
So; is everyone ready to start discussing the book? I'm chompin' at the bit!
If we are ready to discuss the books I would first of all like to say that I enjoy the book for the most part and the voicing is mostly spot on.
What does everyone think about the diversity of species on the ship? Humans are the minority for the first time on a Federation vessel.
What does everyone think of Dr. Ree? I think a dinosaur like alien stretches my imagination and believability but I do like his sense of humor. However, don't you get the feeling that he uses humor to try and befriend people because he is aware he makes people uncomfortable and so he has resorted to humor to help with his own insecurities?
What Trek continuity things do you think are cool in this first section? Admiral James Leonard Akaar is kind of a cool touch as he was just a baby in the TOS episode Friday's Child when we last saw him. Of course anyone familiar with the more recent Star Trek books would know that he has appeared in several of them. Most prominently I suppose in the DS9 relaunch books.
There are a lot things we can discuss in depth about this book as it does provide a lot to think about.
Kevin
Thanks for getting the ball rolling, ktrek!
I enjoyed the book as well, and I agree; the characters for the most part "sounded" like I expected them to sound. I was never a fan of Riker, but the authors of this book reminded me of a lot of the character's positive traits. They managed to pull me into the "Pro-Riker" camp. I thought it was interesting to see Riker deal with his insecurities about commanding his first Starship, and it was cool to see how quickly he grew into his new role.
Regarding LJ Akaar- I was first introduced to him in the DS9 Mission Gamma books. I picked up on the fact that he had a long history in Starfleet, but it never clicked with me that he was the baby from Friday's child! Thanks for bringing this to my attention; very cool!
As far as the makeup of the Titan's crew is concerned, I liked the diversity. You bring up a good point: even though Starfleet is part of a multi-species Federation of Planets, humans always seem to be in the majority. It was refreshing to see a crew that comes close to reflecting the diversity of the UFP.
Speaking of diversity, Dr. Ree is one of my new favorite Star Trek characters. After all, dinosaurs are just plain cool. I have to empathize with the crew's reaction to him, however. I'd feel kind of weird having a sentient velociraptor with razor-sharp claws and fangs giving me a physical check-up. :)
Speaking of the diversity of the UFP I don't think that we can discuss this book properly without discussing diversity. Diversity seems to be a major theme of Taking Wing and in order to appreciate that I think we have to evaluate what we each think about diversity? I used to work for a university where diversity training was a big deal and I'm sure that most people in the professional world now have to have diversity training.
Is diversity training right and ethical or is it the world system imposing values upon us? Do you think diversity training is ethical/moral or just a bunch of hooey? Do we as Americans (who I assume are the majority of us in this group) need to think beyond our borders and try to embrace what other nations, political positions or even religion/moral worldview, have to offer? If you are a strong Christian for instance, or a Muslim, can you accept those outside your belief system for who and what they are or is there a need to convert and change people? And if so why? What about sexual orientation? We see soon on that the Titan has a gay crew member and was a former life partner to Commander Hawk before he was killed in FIRST CONTACT. Is it necessary to bring a gay character into the books at all? Is it too offensive to even talk about?
Anyway, there a hundreds of questions that we can ask each other about this book and not allow it to just be another "fictional" read but to really explore what the authors wanted us to think about and deal with in our lives. If a book does not do so IMHO it has not served a worthy purpose at all. I enjoy the fact that Star Trek as a series, movies and now books challenges what it means to be a human. It may be hard and sometimes hurt for us to re-evaluate ourselves but if we are to grow in our humanity it must be so.
Kevin
I like the diversity of the crew but I have to say in the early part of the book I had trouble telling who was who. A lot of secondary characters are introduced in a short span of time. I can understand why that was the case but I needed a bit more background to keep track of them all in my head as I read along. I think Riker as a captain now works very well. I always thought on TNG that when he took command it seemed to fit him. Plus he is different enough from Picard's style to have his own unique take on command - eventually.
As far as the diversity issue in the book I pretty much liked it. Star Trek has always been about that and it certainly fits. For me personally I have always tried to embrace different cultures and people of different races and beliefs. I really enjoy being able to travel to places far away when I can. I remember in college I had a friend that was dating an African American girl (he was white). Now I grew up in Detroit and this might not seem like a big thing now in 2008 but, years ago even when I was in college it was rather unique. And I'm happy to say that I had no issue at all with it. She was a great person and that's how I related to her, not the color of her skin. Anyway, just thought I'd pass that story along. Frankly, there are people that are good and bad in every culture and place I have been. And in a way that's what diversity is all about. But I try very hard to not prejudge anyone based on their culture or race, etc. I get to know them before I make up my mind on what type of person they are. Watching Star Trek at a young age and through the years I think has helped me greatly in accepting others and that is one of the great things about the series that I love.
I don't judge people by their skin color and I have friends who have beliefs that are not inline with my own. My mother taught my siblings and I a line of scripture that has stuck with me since I was a little girl: Judge not lest ye be judged. It has always stuck with me, though it is sometimes difficult to adhere to...I'm not perfect. I think everyone would benefit from learning, understanding and applying it to their daily lives.
I like the diversity in the book, but I agree with Rico. For example...Until the dino doc came into the room and introduced himself, I had trouble knowing if Nurse Ogowa was examining Doctor Ree or the Shipwright from Mars. By the way, I like the description the authors give to the reptilian CMO—I'm not familiar with the alien and it helps me to picture him better. They continue to describe the way he blinks his eyes, speaks and laughs...all these things add dimension to the character. I wish they would do that more with the other aliens. They all need the same attention.
As an aside, I didn't get why it was funny that Troi didn't warn Riker enough about the doctor's species...it didn't seem like something that would be an issue, but it didn't last long so I let it go. And the reactions to the doctor went on too long... I get it... he's weird looking. :D
Quote from: Jen on January 08, 2008, 06:52:43 AMAs an aside, I didn't get why it was funny that Troi didn't warn Riker enough about the doctor's species...it didn't seem like something that would be an issue, but it didn't last long so I let it go. And the reactions to the doctor went on too long... I get it... he's weird looking. :D
Jen,
Perhaps if you imagine a velociraptor from Jurassic Park holding out his hand to shake yours you might have a more vivid picture? That's why for me Dr. Ree seems a little over the top as do a couple of other characters. It's almost like the authors were trying too hard to emphasize diversity and to me it feels "forced". Not forced on us but forced into the story.
In the Star Trek universe we find that the majority of life forms were humanoid in appearance and there was reason for that. It was explained that the originators (I can't recall their name for the life of me) seeded their DNA across the galaxy. It stands to reason then that all intelligent lifeforms would probably develop in similar patterns although with unique distinctions. I find it improbable that dinosaurs could have evolved to sentient existence. But like I said I do like how they are using Dr. Ree for some comic relief.
It's also revealed that this is the first crew of it's kind in Starfleet and is somewhat of an experiment. The advantage I see to having such a diverse crew is that it makes the internal struggles on the ship as interesting as the external conflicts (Where we also have diversity...Romulans, Klingons and Remans).
One thing that I think has to be asked though is does the diversity take away from some of the storytelling? A lot of time is used in the book to talk about how certain species are accommodated for in order for them to fit it. I suppose this has it's parallels in our society with persons we would consider handicapped, who if they are given the proper allowances can function almost as well and in some ways better than those of us who are not.
Anyway, this is turning out to be a great discussion so far. I appreciate reading everyone's thoughts and perhaps between all of us we can each come away from this book with a better appreciation for each other as well.
Kevin
Hi Ktrek,
Yep, I agree... I wish Dr. Ree wasn't a creature we can relate to in a physical sense. But it's OK... I like him. I just didn't think Riker should have been surprised by Ree's appearance. I guess all those years on the Enterprise D, meeting fish people who eat their food from barrels, murderous oil blobs, and hairy Cousin It's that morph into grandmas... are fairly benign when compared to creatures that look like a number of Earth reptiles from his home planet. :D
Really, it was only this small little insignificant scene at the beginning of the book, between Dianna and Riker, that didn't work for me. Why would he be annoyed that his wife didn't tell him the doctor was a reptile? He's the captain and he's the one who choose the CMO. I think the workaholic Riker we all know, would have done his due diligence and realized that the 'renowned doctor' he selected, was a big...creepy... lizard. That scene just seemed to me like a weak excuse for the authors to get a shocked reaction out of Riker and set up an exchange between husband and wife....which I thought fell a little flat. "I'll get you for this?" That was his reaction to learning the CMO was odd looking? Why was he annoyed? Was it because he didn't like being surprised, didn't like that his wife failed to point out his oversight verbally, or was it because he didn't like the fact that his CMO was a lizard? I wasn't sure where they were going for with that exchange...but I'm pretty sure the Riker we know doesn't care that his CMO has scales—he's use to that sort of thing. But, that's just my opinion of that one scene. The rest is great so far. :)
You know what Jen? That would make a great question for Rico to ask Andy Mangels. You maybe should word it and submit in a PM to him.
You make a great point in that it's inconceivable that Riker would not have already known about Dr. Ree since he was the one who has compiled the ship's roster. I guess I just played along with it because I saw it as an opportunity for a little husband/wife banter.
Another continuity thread is Nurse Alyssa Ogawa already mentioned by Jen above, but what she didn't mention is the fact that Ogawa has a son Noah from her deceased husband Lieutenant Andrew Powell. Although Ogawa's relationship with Lt. Powell is mentioned frequently, in the 7th season of TNG, we never see him onscreen (with the exception of the possibility of the incident in the "alternate timeline" in the TNG episode "All Good Things", he may be seen there with her when she lost the baby. So now their son Noah is 7 years old when the Titan's mission begins.
I can post other continuities in the series but I'd like to hear what things others have noticed.
Kevin
I am so bummed that I can't contribute to his conversation.. I have to pick up this book.. sounds fantastic.
Quote from: Ktrek on January 08, 2008, 01:16:23 PM
You know what Jen? That would make a great question for Rico to ask Andy Mangels. You maybe should word it and submit in a PM to him.
You make a great point in that it's inconceivable that Riker would not have already known about Dr. Ree since he was the one who has compiled the ship's roster. I guess I just played along with it because I saw it as an opportunity for a little husband/wife banter.
Another continuity thread is Nurse Alyssa Ogawa already mentioned by Jen above, but what she didn't mention is the fact that Ogawa has a son Noah from her deceased husband Lieutenant Andrew Powell. Although Ogawa's relationship with Lt. Powell is mentioned frequently, in the 7th season of TNG, we never see him onscreen (with the exception of the possibility of the incident in the "alternate timeline" in the TNG episode "All Good Things", he may be seen there with her when she lost the baby. So now their son Noah is 7 years old when the Titan's mission begins.
I can post other continuities in the series but I'd like to hear what things others have noticed.
Kevin
You know, I was thinking about submitting that as a question...but in a nicer way. :D
Although I read this book last year, and i am about to start the most recent Titan book, I agree with many of these observations. The first part of he book felt a little "rushed". I am curious to see what you all think of the rest!
For those of you who are having trouble keeping track of all the characters on TITAN's crew I found this link that may help you. It's quite helpful because it lists both species and gender, as well as what rank and positions they serve. Admittedly there is a lot to keep track of but if you have ever read Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky then TITAN is like reading Dick and Jane! :)
http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Titan_%28NCC-80102%29 (http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Titan_%28NCC-80102%29)
Kevin
One thing that has been bugging me for some reason is this. A lot of the crew are secondary characters we've seen throughout the last few series (nurse Ogawa and the low-grav woman from DS9 come to mind) I'm not sure why but it just seems convenient that all these people we've been exposed to in the past are all posted to the Titan. It's not a big issue but it kind of stuck out for me.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 10, 2008, 05:24:40 AM
One thing that has been bugging me for some reason is this. A lot of the crew are secondary characters we've seen throughout the last few series (nurse Ogawa and the low-grav woman from DS9 come to mind) I'm not sure why but it just seems convenient that all these people we've been exposed to in the past are all posted to the Titan. It's not a big issue but it kind of stuck out for me.
I'm sure that's purposeful Billy to try and give some continuity to the book series and help make them seem more like the various shows. Christine Vale, the first officer, was also a character in the TNG "A Time To" series from a few years back. I suppose fans liked her character enough for them to consider permanent inclusion in a series.
There has been some talk about seeing if IDW would do a TITAN comic series as they are doing a New Frontier series with Peter David beginning in March. I can't wait to read that one. I hope it's released in a nice quality bound edition.
I was also wondering what everyone thought of the various ideas for the dedication plaque proposals. I thought all of them were good. It's be hard to choose.
Kevin
Some of them were a bit too long to be catchy I think! Also I agree on the continutity point, it just rubbed me the wrong way for a second. It was like "Ok, we need new people, let's use every secondary Starfleet officer we've ever met and dump them all on the same ship."
Well, I think the intent was not just for continuity but "familiarity". After all we are likely feel more warm feelings about Alyssa Ogawa than we would Lt. Commander Keru. Don't you agree? I think the authors tried to blend a mix where you feel comfortable enough because there are familiar faces and yet excited enough because there are new characters to explore. However, if you look at the link I provided above you will see that overall there are very few familiar names and characters in the series.
Kevin
Oh I agree completely. Just making an observation!
Did I miss read something or is Lt. Commander Keru romantically interested in Dino Doc? That just was absurd to me. It's not a gender thing... it's the fact he's a lizard. How is that attractive in the romantic sense? It was too much of a stretch for me.
Here are my suggestions for dedication plaques:
"He turns not back who is bound to a star"- Leonardo da Vinci
"Few can foresee whither their road will lead them, till they come to its end." -Tolkien
"Second star to the right, and straight on 'till morning."
"Don't laugh it's paid for"- unknown
Quote from: Jen on January 10, 2008, 12:18:17 PM
Did I miss read something or is Lt. Commander Keru romantically interested in Dino Doc? That just was absurd to me. It's not a gender thing... it's the fact he's a lizard. How is that attractive in the romantic sense? It was too much of a stretch for me.
What page did you get that impression from Jen? I missed that if that's the case! That would be too bizarre for words!
I liked your da Vinci quote best!
Kevin
Chapter Five... One of the officers fell and hurt himself and was very nervous about going to Sickbay. Ogawa gives him a xenophobe lecture and then he asks if Ree is single. She advises him that if he's interested in pursuing Ree...to be careful, or go easy or something like that...that he lost his "lifemate" to the Borg.
Quote from: Ktrek on January 10, 2008, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: Jen on January 10, 2008, 12:18:17 PM
Did I miss read something or is Lt. Commander Keru romantically interested in Dino Doc? That just was absurd to me. It's not a gender thing... it's the fact he's a lizard. How is that attractive in the romantic sense? It was too much of a stretch for me.
What page did you get that impression from Jen? I missed that if that's the case! That would be too bizarre for words!
I liked your da Vinci quote best!
Kevin
Well the gender thing is also an interesting point, as far as I know there is very little Star Trek lore that addresses same sex relationships. You'd think it wouldn't be an issue in the 24th century but most relationships we've been exposed to have always been male/female be they the same species or not.
It wasn't that... it was the fact that this human we are just introduced to, all of a sudden likes the reptile doctor for no apparent reason. It came from no where and really seemed...absurd—that's the only thing I can think of to describe it. They just sort of dump it on us.
It might just be curiosity. People have odd fetishes. Lizards? Why not... but I agree Jen, it was pretty sudden I guess I was tired when I was reading that passage the first time and I didn't pick up on the fact he was talking about the doctor.
Yeah... I was tired too. Maybe I need to reread it to make sure I know what the heck I'm talking about. :D
Quote from: Jen on January 10, 2008, 12:18:17 PM
Here are my suggestions for dedication plaques:
"He turns not back who is bound to a star"- Leonardo da Vinci
"Few can foresee whither their road will lead them, till they come to its end." -Tolkien
"Second star to the right, and straight on 'till morning."
"Don't laugh it's paid for"- unknown
For quotes I've always liked the Canadian Air Force motto: "Per Ardua Ad Astra" (Through adversity to the stars)
What? No one likes "Don't laugh it's paid for"? :D
We had a bumpersticker on our car that said that when I was in high school.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 10, 2008, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: Jen on January 10, 2008, 12:18:17 PM
Here are my suggestions for dedication plaques:
"He turns not back who is bound to a star"- Leonardo da Vinci
"Few can foresee whither their road will lead them, till they come to its end." -Tolkien
"Second star to the right, and straight on 'till morning."
"Don't laugh it's paid for"- unknown
For quotes I've always liked the Canadian Air Force motto: "Per Ardua Ad Astra" (Through adversity to the stars)
Jen,
I think you were too tired when you read that chapter because it's NOT Keru who is interested in Dr. Ree. It was Kent Norellis interested in Keru. Keru was involved with Sean Hawk aboard the Enterprise E while stationed there. Unless you read something else. The part I am referring to is on page 74.
Boy that was a picture I really didn't need in my brain!
Kevin
Ah... well... there you go. Makes more sense now. :blush
Quote from: Jen on January 10, 2008, 12:54:06 PM
What? No one likes "Don't laugh it's paid for"? :D
We had a bumpersticker on our car that said that when I was in high school.
Humans don't use money in the 24th century!
Spoil sport.
Quote from: Ktrek on January 10, 2008, 12:56:11 PM
Jen,
I think you were too tired when you read that chapter because it's NOT Keru who is interested in Dr. Ree. It was Kent Norellis interested in Keru. Keru was involved with Sean Hawk aboard the Enterprise E while stationed there. Unless you read something else. The part I am referring to is on page 74.
Boy that was a picture I really didn't need in my brain!
Kevin
So this still maintains my point that this is one of the few (or maybe the first) true same sex relationships in Star Trek. Am I wrong? I doubt the authors would bother bringing this up if it wasn't going to develop.
Personally, I haven't read that many Trek books... I couldn't say. Duffster? Ktrek? Do you guys know?
In the book Stitch in Time by Andrew Robinson it is hinted that Garak is bi-sexual. In the Star Trek New Frontier book Renaissance Peter David introduces a gay Vulcan character.There was a lesbian character is S. D, Perry's DS9 book called Avatar but she was on a ship that was destroyed so her character does not survive. In the Mangels and Martic book called Section 31 Rogue they introduce the Sean Hawk and Keru (from the Titan book) as intimately involved. There were also some gay characters in the Starfleet Corps of Engineer series. There may be more instances but I can't think of any at the moment. So, no this isn't the first time in Trek books.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. I kinda burnt out on Star Trek books about 10-12 years ago. The last books I read were the original TNG novels back in the day (Ghost ship, Imzadi, Vendetta and the like). I guess I kind of lost interest. I must say that I'm enjoying this book a lot more then I thought I would, might get me back into Star Trek novels.
Quote from: billybob476 on January 11, 2008, 02:05:49 PM
Thanks Kevin. I kinda burnt out on Star Trek books about 10-12 years ago. The last books I read were the original TNG novels back in the day (Ghost ship, Imzadi, Vendetta and the like). I guess I kind of lost interest. I must say that I'm enjoying this book a lot more then I thought I would, might get me back into Star Trek novels.
That would be great if you do! I don't know how long ago you stopped but if it was more than five years ago you have missed some fantastic stories. The current group of authors are fabulous storytellers. Star Trek books are not the throw away pulp novels they used to be. Authors I would recommend would be:
Keith R. A. DeCandido (KRAD) Anything he writes is awesome!
David Mack - Certainly a high claibre writer.
S.D. Perry - Her DS9 relaunch books are fabulous!
Christopher Bennett - He writes stories that are epic in scope.
Jeffrey Lang - Immortal Coil is a must read!
Peter David - Anything he writes is fun. I really enjoy his New frontier series.
There are just so many books that are worth your while these days. I'm looking forward to Taking Wing's author's latest Excelsior novel that just came out this month.
Kevin
Don't forget A.C. Crispin. :)
Quote from: Jen on January 11, 2008, 02:50:31 PM
Don't forget A.C. Crispin. :)
Well, A.C. Crispin is old school and hasn't written any Trek novels in almost 15 years. But yea..she is a good writer and I'm sure her fantasy series are fun reads I just don't have time to check them out.
Kevin
I read her Han Solo trilogy and really enjoyed it. Actually I've read it a few times!
8 years actually... last books she wrote was Sarek. From what I understand she writes original sci-fi too (StarBridge series).
They just put out an omnibus of Spocks World and Sarek, which was retitled: Sand And Stars. I bought it thinking it was a new novel... darn Pocket Books...
I loved the Han Solo Trilogy too. They are my favorite Star Wars books.
Quote from: Jen on January 11, 2008, 03:03:44 PM
8 years actually... last books she wrote was Sarek. From what I understand she writes original sci-fi too (StarBridge series).
They just put out an omnibus of Spocks World and Sarek, which was retitled: Sand And Stars. I bought it thinking it was a new novel... darn Pocket Books...
I loved the Han Solo Trilogy too. They are my favorite Star Wars books.
I hate to tell you this Jen but Sarek came out in 1994.
Kevin
Did they reprint it? Because I'm seeing July 27 1999, and Aug 1 2000 as the publish dates.
I have the original hardcover release and mine says 1994. For confirmation you could go to her website also:
http://www.accrispin.com/published.htm (http://www.accrispin.com/published.htm)
So yes...I'm pretty sure! :)
Kevin
:D I bow to your superior knowledge. :worthy ;)
I finally caught up to everyone with this Book. I started Thursday as I was reading something else and wanted to finish before I stared Taking Wing. So far I have been able to get through it pretty quick, and at around page 90, so it seems easy enough to read.
I guess my first observation is the diverse crew. To be honest at the start, I was not really excited about Dr Ree, as he seems really out there in terms of a species. I do appreciate how they are handling him, as it seems far more real to me. I like how everyone is taking time to adjust to him, instead of everyone acting like it is normal for a Dinosaur to be serving on a Star Ship. In the past I have been turned off of Sci-Fi when they introduce strange creatures, as I find it hard to visualize and relate to. Usually with the Characters, they give them names that are hard to read, remember or pronounce. At least with Dr Ree, it is an easy enough name to remember. Even though he is a Dinosaur, I don't think I am picturing him as the authors attend, and maybe that is a good thing, as I envisioning him more as a reptile then I probably should. When I read book, I usually assign voices to characters as well, when Riker speaks, I hear Jonathan Frakes, etc etc etc. With Dr Ree, some how he keeps sounding like General Grievous to me, instead of someone with a hiss, I will try more to make him sound like he should in my head.
Some of the other Characters they have not touched on to much, so I am hoping I do not loose track of them. I guess my only worry is that there seems to be a lot of species I am not familiar with, so I might need to try and remember them when they come up. Some still seem a bit unbelievable to me, such as one of the Counsellors which sounds like it is a blue little bear??? Also some sort of Insect or crab type species as well.
I vaguely remember low G lady from DS9, and seemed to recall I did not care much for her, to much of a chip on her shoulder. At least the way I am reading it, she still seems like she is walking around with the same chip on her shoulder. I am not sure if she will be a character I will have a lot of sympathy for.
I am really liking Commander Riker, and like mentioned earlier, they have seemed to bring out his better qualities. From outward appearance you would think he would be brimming with confidence, but like how he has some reservations as well. Riker seems very believable in a person to be leading a diverse crew like this. I actually share his disappointment that he has been diverted to Romulas instead of his exploration mission. They have not touched to much on the mission yet, but does sound very political, so hopefully there are some action elements.
Thinking tonight I will watch Nemesis again to refresh myself of the event of it.
So far I enjoying this a lot, and it is the first Star Trek book I have read in sometime. I was worried that this might be a hard read, but so far I am getting though it pretty easy. As well, thanks Kevin for pointing out that the Capellan Admiral was the Child from Fridays Child, I did not realize that.