This story made me sick from the start. I don't like posting this type of stuff, but I needed to vent a little. This punishment is not nearly severe enough. Sorry, but this guy needs to go away - for a very long time.
By LARRY O'DELL, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago
RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick was sentenced to 23 months in prison Monday for his role in a dogfighting conspiracy that involved gambling and killing pit bulls.
U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson could have sentenced the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback to up to five years. Vick pleaded guilty in August, admitting he bankrolled the "Bad Newz Kennels" dogfighting operation and helped kill six to eight dogs.
They should do what he did to those POOR DOGS to him.
Sad story indeed. It amazes me that guys like this, with all their wealth and fame would even consider doing something like this, and risk losing it all like Michael Vick will. I am surprised that His Agent and handlers would even allow him to be involved in something like this. I know they cant be every where at one time, but I would have to think they would have at least had an idea of what was going on. Hopefully other Athletes and Celebreties will learn from this.
I just wanted him to get whatever he would get if he were not rich and famous.
I am totally against dog fighting, though I voted to keep cock fighting legal.
And yet Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan got a few hours? They could have killed people doing what they did...
I just hope he stays in for the entire 23 months...they could reduce it further if he shows up on time and signs a few autographs for the police. I agree Space Invader, I want to see him get what any average Joe or Jane would get.
From my understanding 23 months is a lot for this, isn't it? People do worse to humans and get less time in jail. That makes me more mad than anything.
BTW max sentence is 5 years but that is never used supposedly.
Yes.. 23 months is a long time.. I watch Animal Cops all the time and these people do horrible things to there animals and I think should receive the same treatment, but normally they can't do anything or just get a slap on the wrist and fine... it's pretty sickening.. So 23 months I think is good for the crime. And like Jen.. I hope he stays in all 23 months.
I'm not sure what typical sentences for this are. For me at least that isn't the point or the issue. This was intentional cruelty to animals. I could never be a judge or a lawyer in this type of case (or many cases for that matter).
Yeah I'm with you Rico.. Animals are so defenseless. I have a hard time watching Animal Cops on Animal Planet. Humans can be very cruel at times.
I just wanted to clear up something I said.
I did vote no on a cock fighting ban but it was not for the reasons that most did. Never been to a cock fight never raised roosters. Don't believe in animal cruelty. I think that we should have the fewest amount of laws that we can get along with.
At the core, I don't see a chicken as a form of life as high as a dog or a horse. More like a minnow that people fish with. I know I could be totally wrong about this, with my experence with chickens I couldn't make myself see it as a big deal. If it had been a dog fighting ban, i would have voted yes!
At the end of the day, the roosters are euthanized and the cockfighters are put into an overcrowed jail at the taxpayers expense. I think since so many people think it is necessary to ban it, it should be punishable by a fine.
But dogs, cats, horses, cattle and other animals should have a higher level of protection. For the abuse of a dog for instance, the person should do jail time.
Dogs on the other hand are a whole diffrent ballgame. Dogs bread and trained to kill other dogs are a danger to public safety. Even if they weren't it strikes almost everyone as sick. Those animals could have been someones pet. And it is unnecessary torture of an animal of a higher form of life.
Just recently, Oklahoma City banned the tattooing if fish. And I can't for the life of me understand why this activity I never knew existed would be the focus of our elected officials. Pardon the pun but I would think we have bigger fish to fry!
I grew up on a farm and saw many rabbits, chickens and cows that I named and played with on occasion, end up on the diner table. That was hard to deal with. Yet, I am also a hunter and fisherman...I probably wouldn't be the best person in the world to speak to this issue because of that. I see where you're coming from Space Invader, and I agree that we don't need a billion little laws clogging up our system. But things like dog fighting and cock fighting need punishments that go beyond a slap on the wrist. It's perpetuating a greater problem and someone like Vic could simply pay the fine and keep on trucking with his seedy little underground.
Cock fighting is still a horrible event. So chickens aren't as smart as dogs...it still shouldn't be going on.
I can't stand cruelty of any type, especially for the purpose of money.
VIck looked pitiful in his black and white striped suit. I kinda felt bad for the guy....what a shame, he had it all and whizzed it right down his leg. Make no mistake, I have no sympathy for him, he is getting what he deserves. Hopefully other athletes and entertinment people will look at this and realize that their "entourage" or "posse" usually do not in any way have the stars best interests at heart but their own and most of them nothing but leeches anyway.
I have also read that federal inmates have to fulfill at least 80% of their sentence. No to mention that the State of Virginia still gets a crack at him and may make him do any state sentences consectutively so he may remain behind bars for longer than most expect. Not to mention if he is away for longer than 3 years, he can pretty much kiss any chance at a return to the NFL good-bye.
I just posted that to explain so y'all didn't think I was an animal torturer!
Nah, I would only kill something if:
1. I have plans to make it food.
2. It's dangerous and could hurt a person of one of the pets.
3. It's a pest.
Everything else I pretty much let be. Especially snakes. I don't know why people get so freaked out about nonpoisonous snakes. Why? In Oklahoma, the police were called to a residence because a rat snake was trying to get in the neighbor's birdhouse. Rat snakes are not dangerous to humans. I used to have one as a pet. So the cops shot at the snake. They weren't paying attention to what was behind their target. (Major Gun Safty Violation) and there was a man fishing with his 5-year-old grandson. The boy was shot and killed. Very sad story.
On a side note, I think that schools should be doing more to teach gun saftey. My high school had a gun club. I think everyone walking needs to have a healthy working knowledge of gun saftey whether you are a gun owner or not.
I'm sorry I tend to ramble and get off topic.
Jen, I made friends with dinner a few times too.
Don't ever name them....
I did! The rabbits and cows. If I am raising animals when I have kids I don't know how that will work.
To take the edge off the discussion a bit. Heeeerres...MONGO !!
Just X I truly disagree with what you have to say. He admitted killing these animals in terrible and inhumane ways. I don't even want to think about how strongly I feel about this subject. I welcome you telling me what "dog society" endorses dog fighting.
On another subject I think you need to look into the difference between domesticated and wild animals. They are not the same thing.
I can't write anymore right now.
P.S. I regret making this entire post now and may lock it and or delete it very soon.
Just X, the problem is that those dogs had no choice. If people are going to keep animals as pets, they should be treated humanely and not turned into angry, unhappy, psychotic animals living with painful injuries.
Yes, I agree that criminals should spend more jail time for crimes they commit on other people.
As for Michael Vick, he shouldn't be allowed to play football again. EDIT: In the NFL of course.
Dogs have been domesticated for thousands and thousands of years. Calling them mistreated because owners allow them to live in the house is not a good argument. Dogs are pack animals. When domesticated, they consider a human family their "pack". My Daschund and German Shepherd prefer my nice warm house to the outdoors. Why? Because they see it as a den where the rest of their pack lives. They don't like to be separated from us and they whine when they have to stay outside... I'm I miss treating them when I let them indoors or because I've decided to have them as a pet?
Sure, in the wild they eat meat. But did you know dog food consists of meat too? In fact, not that long ago, horse meat was sometimes in dog food—yep. My dogs don't seem to mind the processed stuff. In fact, they'll eat anything I put in front of them and then some. Here's a gross fact....Olive, my Daschund, is rather fond of "kitty toosie rolls" (AKA cat crap)... I guess in the wild they eat that too, because she makes a bee line for it as soon as she comes in the house. Yummy. :D
In the wild, dogs roamed in packs. They fight until one dog submits or runs away. In the ring they fight until a dog dies because humans entice/train them too. If you can't see the issue with dogs fighting to the death, consider this: People who train dogs to kill like this are endangering more than just other dogs... As I'm sure you are aware, these dogs are also dangerous to humans—children and adults have been killed by these types of animals many, many times and that's reason enough to go to jail.
I agree with PepperDude. Just because 23 months is longer than many persons who commit violent crimes against humans doesn't mean that those sentences were correct.
The legal system is full of inconsistencies. Just like I get frustrated that the female teachers who have inappropriate relationships with the students are given probation and sympathized with by the public. But a man doing the same thing is vilified and given a long jail term. It doesn't mean that the men were undeserving of their long jail time, but maybe the female teachers should get it too.
I've been a dog owner my whole life and yes dogs do fight eachother without humans making them do it, but it is not the same. it's usually not to the death. It's to establish dominance. Deer and Moose do the same thing to determin the alpha male. And yes sometimes dogs will fight to the death, it's often when a pack of dogs will attack a single dog.
Sadly Sports has a track record for forgiving things that should not have been forgiven. Or at least not be reinstated. I was not happy when Mike Tyson was allowed to box again. Also, I know it was never proven but I believe Kobe's accuser. She was a crazy person but I think she might have been telling the truth.
When the story came out, this is one of the sites that my wife found that gave a brief synopsis of Dog Fighting.
http://www.peoriahs.org/
THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS REPRODUCED FROM THE FILES OF
THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES
DEPARTMENT OF FIELD SERVICE AND INVESTIGATIONS
DOG FIGHTING:
AN HISTORICAL NOTE
The modern 'sport' of dog fighting has its origins in the Coliseum combats of ancient Rome. Emperor Lucullus was reputedly the first to initiate the practice of pitting dogs against other animals: a group of dogs would be thrown into the Coliseum, doomed to be trampled to death by wild elephants.
Following the fall of Rome, the practice of fighting dogs made its reappearance in medieval England. Beginning in at least the 12th Century, such practices as bull and bear baiting, in addition to mortal combats between dogs and lions or elephants, became increasingly popular. In Elizabethan London, on the south banks of the Thames, a popular attraction was the Bear Gardens – an attraction that even Queen Elizabeth graced. Indeed, royal approval of bear baiting included the appointment of an official 'Master of the Bears and Dogs.'
By the middle of the 17th Century, the popularity in England of baiting sports with at least the nobility had declined rather dramatically; by 1835, humane groups succeeded in outlawing all baiting sports in an act of Parliament known as the Humane Act of 1835.
The growing costliness and scarcity of bears and bulls in the 1700s for baiting purposes had encouraged the practice of fighting dogs against each other for sporting exhibition purposes. The passage of the Humane Act of 1835 however provided the chief incentive for the growth of dog fighting: with the baiting of larger animals illegal, dog fighting became the primary alternative for animal fighting fanciers.
The growth of dog fighting upon the passage of the Humane Act of 1835 was made possible by the development of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. First bred around 1800, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier combined the strength of the Bulldog with the quickness and viciousness of the Terrier. The result was an excellent fighting dog capable of engaging in voracious combat for hours.
With the importation of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier into the United States at around 1817, dog fighting quickly became a popular pastime in this country.
During the 1860s, the 'sport' was made illegal in most states in the U.S. However, the new state laws did little to stop the 'sport.' With the support of much of the populace and some local and police officials, the activity continued to flourish in the late 19th and early 20th Century: books devoted to the 'sport' were published, breeders specialized in developing fighting dogs (Colby, Komosinsky, etc.), world championship fights with large purses were held, and such groups as the United Kennel Club provided rules, approved referees, and an organizational framework for the 'sport.'
The 1930s and '40s saw a decline of the 'sport,' with such groups as the United Kennel Club disassociating themselves from the activity. The last decade ('60s and '70s) however has seen a major growth in the 'sport': two new publications have been established to further dog fighting (Sporting Dog Journal, 1967; Pit Dog Report, 1970), a breeding registry dedicated to fighting dogs has been revitalized, and the number of actively involved individuals in the 'sport' has expanded from 2,500 in 1962 to 5,000 in 1974.
The dog fight of today differs little from the fights of the early 20th Century. The pre-fight procedures are essentially the same: the dogs are weighed (dogs only within a pound of each other are normally fought) and then washed in soap water to remove any poison or drug that may have been placed on their furs. The rules followed in the fight are similar: the dogs fight until one turns; after a one-minute rest period, if the dog that turned refuses to scratch, he is declared the loser. And the results of today's fights are tragically the same as those of 60 years ago: most dogs, following their struggle that may last as long as six hours, eventually die, mortally wounded either by exterior lacerations or internal injuries such as collapsed lungs.
Dog fighting has traditionally involved wager. Today, betting money of up to $100,000 is involved in dog fighting conventions. In turn, the large sums of gambling money have invited a variety of other unsavory activities and individuals: the theft of dogs, drugs, prostitution, organized criminal activity, and even murder have increasingly been tied to dog fighting.
Quote from: PepperDude on December 10, 2007, 07:46:11 PM
...As for Michael Vick, he shouldn't be allowed to play football again. EDIT: In the NFL of course.
I am all for punishing Michael Vick. However, if he pays for his crime with the jail time then I believe he absolutely deserves a second chance. If an NFL team wants to take a chance on him after he serves his time...then hey, it's on the NFL team. A lot of it depends on Michael Vick.
Nice history lesson Just X. But I see nothing there that changes the current facts that I know of. It is currently illegal in ALL 50 states in the US. People used to kill Native Americans and have slaves too. Doesn't make it right.
Now, here is what the Human Society has to say on the subject:
(link: http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/animal_fighting_the_final_round/dogfighting_fact_sheet/)
1. What is dogfighting?
Dogfighting is a sadistic "contest" in which two dogs—specifically bred, conditioned, and trained to fight—are placed in a pit (generally a small arena enclosed by plywood walls) to fight each other for the spectators' entertainment and gambling. Fights average nearly an hour in length and often last more than two hours. Dogfights end when one of the dogs will not or cannot continue. In addition to these dogfights, there are reports of an increase in unorganized street fights in urban areas.
2. How does it cause animal suffering?
The injuries inflicted and sustained by dogs participating in dogfights are frequently severe, even fatal. The American pit bull terriers used in the majority of these fights have been specifically bred and trained for fighting and are unrelenting in their attempts to overcome their opponents. With their extremely powerful jaws, they are able to inflict severe bruising, deep puncture wounds and broken bones.
Dogs used in these events often die of blood loss, shock, dehydration, exhaustion, or infection hours or even days after the fight. Other animals are often sacrificed as well. Some owners train their dogs for fights using smaller animals such as cats, rabbits or small dogs. These "bait" animals are often stolen pets or animals obtained through "free to good home" advertisements.
3. Are there other concerns?
Yes. Numerous law enforcement raids have unearthed many disturbing facets of this illegal "sport." Young children are sometimes present at the events, which can promote insensitivity to animal suffering, enthusiasm for violence and a lack of respect for the law. Illegal gambling is the norm at dogfights. Dog owners and spectators wager thousands of dollars on their favorites. Firearms and other weapons have been found at dogfights because of the large amounts of cash present. And dogfighting has been connected to other kinds of violence—even homicide, according to newspaper reports. In addition, illegal drugs are often sold and used at dogfights.
4. What other effects does the presence of dogfighting have on people and animals in a community?
Dogs used for fighting have been bred for many generations to be dangerously aggressive toward other animals. The presence of these dogs in a community increases the risk of attacks not only on other animals but also on people. Children are especially at risk, because their small size may cause a fighting dog to perceive a child as another animal.
5. Why should dogfighting be a felony offense?
There are several compelling reasons. Because dogfighting yields such large profits for participants, the minor penalties associated with misdemeanor convictions are not a sufficient deterrent. Dogfighters merely absorb these fines as part of the cost of doing business. The cruelty inherent in dogfighting should be punished by more than a slap on the hand. Dogfighting is not a spur-of-the-moment act; it is a premeditated and cruel practice.
Those involved in dogfighting go to extensive lengths to avoid detection by law enforcement, so investigations can be difficult, dangerous, and expensive. Law enforcement officials are more inclined to investigate dogfighting if it is a felony. As more states make dogfighting a felony offense, those remaining states with low penalties will become magnets for dogfighters.
6. Do some states already have felony laws?
Yes. Dogfighting is illegal in all 50 states and a felony offense in almost every state.
7. Should being a spectator also be a felony?
Yes. Spectators provide much of the profit associated with dogfighting. The money generated by admission fees and gambling helps keep this "sport" alive. Because dogfights are illegal and therefore not widely publicized, spectators do not merely happen upon a fight; they seek it out. They are willing participants who support a criminal activity through their paid admission and attendance.
8. What can I do to help stop dogfighting?
If you live in one of the states where dogfighting is still only a misdemeanor, please write to your state legislators and urge them to make it a felony. To find out how your state treats dogfighting, visit our page on State Dogfighting Laws.
We encourage you also to write letters to the media to increase public awareness of the dangers of dogfighting and to law enforcement officials or prosecutors and judges to urge them to take the issue seriously. You may want to display our dogfighting poster in your community. For free posters, please include your name and address in an email along with the number of posters you would like to receive, and we'll send our catalog as well.
If you suspect that dogfighting is going on in your own neighborhood, alert your local law enforcement agency and urge agency officials to contact The HSUS for practical tools, advice and assistance.
I agree that Dog Fighting isn't right. I think people should be punished, but I also feel that the punishment should fit the crime in all cases and not just the moral outrage. I think that a 23 month sentence is more for the moral outrage than the actual crime. My statement was about sentencing in general. I think that we should start having it consistant in all places for the same crime. I also think that the way the case was tried in the media, that only pushed the 'sport' deeper underground and will result in more animals dying at the hands of the owner rather them them risk trying to nurse the animal back to health.
I also didn't know how common it was until this story. I've never seen or wanted to see a dog fight any more than I wanted to see a bull fight, but when this story broke I was suprised at the number of people that knew people that had been involved in dog fighting. I didn't realize how some people viewed the 'sport' until I started asking questions and the answers shocked me.
We unfortunately live in a culture where violence seems to be more accepted than sexuality. We live in a place where people will turn their child's head when two people start making out on a movie screen, but really don't say much about all of the violence that they experience. We let them play game with fake guns, shooting each other, but the country goes crazy when a bit of boob is flashed during a superbowl. We seem to be more concerned with regulating sex and punishing violence and we don't, for the most part, attempt to distance ourselves from the violence as we do the sex.
From the start this has been about the moral outrage. They wantedto put aside 1 million dollars to cover the cost of caring for and sending the dogs out for adoption. when this story broke, they had decided only 12 dogs would be adopted out and the rest would be put to sleep. Unless the money is going to be paying for people to adopt the animals and giving them a stipend each month, a million dollars to take care of the dogs is a bit much.
I would like to see crimes like these stopped, but it seems to me that the results of this case not only does nothing to deter dog fighting from continuing, it makes it even harder to investigate because these people are now going to close ranks to protect their own. Those that got into the 'sport' will find it harder to get out for fear of someone thinking that they are going to break ranks and bring the law down on them.
The very laws we have setup to protect the dogs from this actually hurts them because even witnesses to a fight find themselves facing a felony charge. Who are they going to tell about what's going on if there is a risk that they will go to prison just for having seen one of the fights?
Rather than 23 months, the courts were in a position to break up the 'sport' by trading time for lists of breeders and sites of other fights and other things that would actually help bring this to an end, but I think that taking down Vick became more important than protecting the animals that are hurt in this.
We make plea bargains that allow killers to walk with a slap on their wrist, but somehow neglected to use that power to actually put a serious dent in these underground activities. Rather than trying to shut down the fights, plea bargains were offered to those involved to secure a charge against Vick. Unfortunately, someone else has already taken his place and more than likely put in new security measures to prevent them from getting caught like Vick was.
The system had a chance to make a diffrence, but instead it chose to make a statement and that's not going to save any additional dogs from this.
I would say by stopping Vick and his cohorts they have saved dogs already. Sure it would be great if this did more than just put this piece of scum behind jail for months, but that didn't happen. Hopefully this has just brought this disgusting "sport" more into the publics mind and more criminals who practice it will be discovered and stopped.
Quote from: Darth Gaos on December 10, 2007, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: PepperDude on December 10, 2007, 07:46:11 PM
...As for Michael Vick, he shouldn't be allowed to play football again. EDIT: In the NFL of course.
I am all for punishing Michael Vick. However, if he pays for his crime with the jail time then I believe he absolutely deserves a second chance. If an NFL team wants to take a chance on him after he serves his time...then hey, it's on the NFL team. A lot of it depends on Michael Vick.
I agree totally. Our system is set up so that once you serve your time you should be able to enter "normal" life and enter the workforce.
Quote from: Rico on December 11, 2007, 06:24:21 AM
I would say by stopping Vick and his cohorts they have saved dogs already. Sure it would be great if this did more than just put this piece of scum behind jail for months, but that didn't happen. Hopefully this has just brought this disgusting "sport" more into the publics mind and more criminals who practice it will be discovered and stopped.
To me people cared about this because it was a "thug" as people so kindly put it, who had over 100 mil in salary and endorsements. If this was someone down the street from anyone of us the news would not have made the national papers. I do not personally think that this is going to change much on the dog fighting sport itself. These laws were there for a long time and the benefits outweigh the jail time for these people, so it will continue.....
Quote from: Rico on December 11, 2007, 06:24:21 AM
I would say by stopping Vick and his cohorts they have saved dogs already. Sure it would be great if this did more than just put this piece of scum behind jail for months, but that didn't happen. Hopefully this has just brought this disgusting "sport" more into the publics mind and more criminals who practice it will be discovered and stopped.
I think that the problem with stopping it is in the laws surrounding it. If you stumbled upon a dog fight, you have committed a felony by seeing just a part of it. Now for you to reveal what you saw you have to incriminate yourself with the possibility of arrest. If you make an anon tip, you have the risk of someone that saw you there saying you were there and you get charged for the felony.
They setup laws that almost require a person in the know to have a lawyer before they tell them where the fights are just to make sure that they don't go to jail.
Since when did you need to pay money to inform on a bad situation without getting in trouble yourself?
Stumble upon a dog fight? I find that pretty unlikely. All I can speak for is myself but if I saw something like that going on my cell phone would be open and dialing in seconds. There are many whistle blower laws out there to protect the tipsters. But again, I can only speak for what I would do.
I'm right there with you Rico.. Dog fighting is illegal and if you stumble upon it then I think you're hanging out with the wrong type of people. And yes if I saw something illegal I would be on the phone calling 911.. be it dog fighting or someone getting mugged. A crime is a crime and it's our duty to report it.
And in the meantime I would distract them all with my hypnotic "Rico Dance." ;)
:roflmao
That would be like a good snake charmer! The dogs would enjoy it and the crowd would too!
You could play Saturday night fever and wear a white suit.
:)
Oh Rick.. you had to go there.. now I can't get that imagine out of my mind.
I, I, I, I Stayin' alive, stayin' alive....
Rico...please dance to that song in your next vidcast. I have to see it! :r2d2line
Okay Jen.. you asked for it.. and thanks to rick I couldn't get this imagine out of my mind.. so here it is.
After he distracts them with his dance, he open a can of whoop-a$$ by using his moves from the short lived boxing career/podcast.
:metallica:
Quote from: Darth Gaos on December 11, 2007, 12:12:58 PM
After he distracts them with his dance, he open a can of whoop-a$$ by using his moves from the short lived boxing career/podcast.
Now we are talking! ;)
This thread has suddenly turned very cool.
:shocked
That was the plan :)
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on December 11, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Okay Jen.. you asked for it.. and thanks to rick I couldn't get this imagine out of my mind.. so here it is.
As Riker would say "What the hell ?"
Quote from: markinro on December 11, 2007, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on December 11, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Okay Jen.. you asked for it.. and thanks to rick I couldn't get this imagine out of my mind.. so here it is.
As Riker would say "What the hell ?"
Indeed Markinro indeed. I turn my head for a couple days and you guys go from the prosecution of the dog abuser to Rico beating the crap out of the dog abuser. :laugh: I'm not complaining of course, I would personally pay $$ to see that happen. So yea Rico, you want to do a video cast of that? I'm all for it!!
:laugh:
King Linksr
I think we were talking about "charming them" with Rico's superior dancing skills... ;)
Plus "Treks In Kicking the Crap Out Of People Who Are Invlolved In Dogfighting" doesn't really roll off the toongue so easily and would be a pain to search for
We could always call it "TIKTCOOPWAIID" (tickt-coop-wade)
;D
I'd love to be the writer who breaks the story:
Dancing Dostie Dooms Dogfighters!
or
Rocky-esque Rico Ravages Ring
LOL LOL LOL
King Linksr
Quote from: StarTrekFanatic5 on December 11, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Okay Jen.. you asked for it.. and thanks to rick I couldn't get this imagine out of my mind.. so here it is.
Hey - I look pretty snazzy! Hehe!
ohhh boy. How did the Vick thread turn into Rico on Saturday NIght Fever?