hey everybody! I got a letter in the mail from my health insurance company raising my rates yet again. Geez! There isn't much I can do about it, but between Amy and I it will be over 1500 dollars a year MORE! So, I can guess I need to look for a more affordable place.
Question: Does anyone know of an affordable health insurance plans with perscription coverage?
What do you have?
I have Anthem.. use to be Blue Cross.. but they are the ones raising their rates.. they tried to raise rates 40% earlier this year but Obama said no way!!! but they did allow them to raise them something like 19%. Plus just found out, now that I'm turning 40 next month my rates will go up again because I'm in a different age bracket now.. so I'm getting a $39 dollars raise in my rates and then later a 19% raise in rates... Makes me want to give up health insurance all together.
yeah, I'm turning 45 and not only does my premium go up another $50 but I get a $55 dollar increase as well.
If I didn't have diabetes, I would try something different. It's so expensive! Amy's will go up too.
It's really a sad thing. For most when you are younger you barely need any health care, but you still pay for it for many years. Then when you might start to need it more, they raise the costs. Lynn's usually had pretty good health coverage being a teacher, but the plan has been getting worse over recent years. Anyway, sorry I don't know of any good answers or private plans out there.
I'm nervous about finish up my degree this year cause soon as I'm out of college I get kicked off the family insurance plan and can't say I'll be able to find a job strait away to pay for insurance.
Quote from: Sheppard on August 28, 2010, 12:01:12 PM
I'm nervous about finish up my degree this year cause soon as I'm out of college I get kicked off the family insurance plan and can't say I'll be able to find a job strait away to pay for insurance.
They've changed some rules so you should be able to stay on your family's insurance for awhile. Check into it.
Yeah, the only 'affordable' way is through some sort of Group plan usually - via an employer. Our coverage has been dropping while our costs have been going up. When you have to buy your own plan - it is brutal. You have too long of a wait for the government plans.
To our UK brethren - what do you think of your National Health coverage?
Quote from: Rico on August 28, 2010, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: Sheppard on August 28, 2010, 12:01:12 PM
I'm nervous about finish up my degree this year cause soon as I'm out of college I get kicked off the family insurance plan and can't say I'll be able to find a job strait away to pay for insurance.
They've changed some rules so you should be able to stay on your family's insurance for awhile. Check into it.
Apparently that letter just came yesterday and my parents told me that I can stay on till I'm 26 (five minutes ago). My parents have been grilling me about it for weeks now how I needed to start worrying about it cause they weren't sure about the 26 thing. So I guess I'll be alright for a while. I'm really glad of that too cause I kinda doubt I could get a good lowish price on insurance for myself.
Quote from: Bromptonboy on August 28, 2010, 02:16:48 PM
Yeah, the only 'affordable' way is through some sort of Group plan usually - via an employer. Our coverage has been dropping while our costs have been going up. When you have to buy your own plan - it is brutal. You have too long of a wait for the government plans.
To our UK brethren - what do you think of your National Health coverage?
Personally, I can't fault it but there are stories of people in high risk brackets with a need for expensive drugs having more problems. There's apparently a bit of a regional lottery over what you can and can't get on prescription in different areas (due to the willingness of the authority to pay) but I've never come across it.
We've had various visits to A&E (probably ER to you US folks) with the children over recent years and always been well enough treated and looked after. Certainly the problems have been sorted out.
The cover is not as good as it once was, though. Dentistry, prescriptions and eye tests aren't free for adults any more (haven't been for years) and although the costs aren't huge I suspect that if you get through a lot of prescriptions in a year the bill woud soon mount up.
When all's said and done, I know that if I'm in a car accident I'll be treated by someone who checks my medical records before my wallet. (But to put the ballancing point, they jolly well ought to since I've been making National Insurance payments for the past twenty years - 'free at the point of use' isn't the same as 'free')
I hope you find something that suits, Rick. Not much advice from me I'm afraid.
I know my brother was initially with Blue Cross, now he gets his coverage though work, not sure of the provider though. It's very sad that basic health care has to cost you guys so much. Like Mike, we have to pay for dental and optical once we're adults but any doctor / hospital visits are covered by our health care system.
well I spoke to my insurance company, Regence Blueshield, and they claim it's only going up a total of $60 per month. I'll believe that when I get the bill. ;)
Quote from: moyer777 on September 08, 2010, 01:07:23 PM
well I spoke to my insurance company, Regence Blueshield, and they claim it's only going up a total of $60 per month. I'll believe that when I get the bill. ;)
Yeah...good luck with that :(
Most of the insurance companies just announced that they are raising rates next year. o joy.
Quote from: Blackride on September 08, 2010, 03:57:00 PM
Most of the insurance companies just announced that they are raising rates next year. o joy.
Do they ever NOT raise their rates??
Yeah, health insurance is a huge mess. Jamie and I are lucky in so far as we both have group options, we use mine, and have amazing coverage. I pay for the best available but within reason as we are both so healthy through United Health. I appreciate the efforts at health care reform debate we have had this past year, but the timing is really lousy. Business have no idea what their costs are going to be under the new plans passed by Congress so you know what they don't do? Hire people.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 08, 2010, 05:02:24 PM
Yeah, health insurance is a huge mess. Jamie and I are lucky in so far as we both have group options, we use mine, and have amazing coverage. I pay for the best available but within reason as we are both so healthy through United Health. I appreciate the efforts at health care reform debate we have had this past year, but the timing is really lousy. Business have no idea what their costs are going to be under the new plans passed by Congress so you know what they don't do? Hire people.
They know prices are going up. They know that much. Someone has to pay for it all.
This I believe is one of the main reasons the economy hasn't recovered. Businesses can't afford the overpriced (and now soon-to-be-forced) health care plans.
Just ridiculous.
King
I'm going to regret asking this but...
Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.
Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement
(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)
Quote from: Feathers on September 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
I'm going to regret asking this but...
Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.
Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement
(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)
Either way the employee takes the brunt of it. Business will only pass the cost down to it's employees or they could freeze hiring or worse to accomodate the increases. It's really not an argument. It's pretty much econ 101 imo. It's not a party thing at all. There is only so many ways this could go...
Quote from: Blackride on September 09, 2010, 04:52:25 AM
Quote from: Feathers on September 09, 2010, 12:22:20 AM
I'm going to regret asking this but...
Surely someone's got to pay? If it's not firms it's individuals or government or, I-don't-know-who-else.
Knowing that, does it really make any difference WHO pays? Surely it's a cost to business either in direct premiums or in employment costs so employees can pay the premiums/taxes (delete as applicable). I think I must be missing something in the arguement
(Equally, I don't want an arguement so if this takes anyone into combat mode, please ignore!)
Either way the employee takes the brunt of it. Business will only pass the cost down to it's employees or they could freeze hiring or worse to accomodate the increases. It's really not an argument. It's pretty much econ 101 imo. It's not a party thing at all. There is only so many ways this could go...
Yep, pretty much.
To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days???? Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time? What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little. And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc. It is a VERY BAD system. Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time. I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs). And yes, I know costs go up. But they shouldn't go up like this. I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.
- Ok -- rant off. ;)
They are going up due to Obama Care. They have to now cover more people.
I work for a car ins company here in Cleveland so I know a bit about insurance unfortunately. Let me tell you that i am not proud of that. It's all about the risks that you are incurring. As a company takes on more risks or people the prices will go up. So with Obama care right now they are really forcing companies to take on more risk than in the past they would have. You can argue the politics of that but I am talking the business behind the decisions already made.
There is also the costs that states charge you for running insurance companies.
Quote from: Rico on September 09, 2010, 05:20:26 AM
To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days???? Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time? What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little. And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc. It is a VERY BAD system. Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time. I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs). And yes, I know costs go up. But they shouldn't go up like this. I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.
- Ok -- rant off. ;)
If that's the case, does that not make a 'taxation' type system like ours where everyone pays a defined contribution rate (related to income) and everyone benfits, better than what you have now?
(Again, no axe to grind, just trying to understand)
Quote from: Feathers on September 09, 2010, 05:59:36 AM
Quote from: Rico on September 09, 2010, 05:20:26 AM
To me the issue isn't who pays the issue is why are we paying so much more these days???? Can someone explain to me how in the past this was fairly affordable to everyone that worked full time? What really "grinds my gears" (to use a "Family Guy" phrase) is for literally decades money goes into some mysterious "fund" and you use very, very little. And then, as you actually might start to need a little health care, they raise your rates, costs, etc. It is a VERY BAD system. Lynn and I and the kids have fortunately needed very little health care coverage and we have both worked for a long time. I can only conclude that some group somewhere is lining their pockets pretty nicely (same is true for college costs). And yes, I know costs go up. But they shouldn't go up like this. I feel this is quickly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Some people can't afford it because costs are so high, so those left that can pay have to pay more and of course eventually they can't pay either.
- Ok -- rant off. ;)
If that's the case, does that not make a 'taxation' type system like ours where everyone pays a defined contribution rate (related to income) and everyone benfits, better than what you have now?
(Again, no axe to grind, just trying to understand)
That get's into the issue if you feel national healh care is the right or wrong decsion. Choice in that model is lost and there can be other govermental issues with the govt controlling it. It's really depends on how you think that the goverment should be structured and how much power they should have.
I guess living in the UK and Canada and growing up under a national health care program it's hard to imagine life without it.
Quote from: billybob476 on September 09, 2010, 06:11:16 AM
I guess living in the UK and Canada and growing up under a national health care program it's hard to imagine life without it.
That's it exactly for me. I'm just trying to get a handle on how it works but can never get past the fact that people with no money appear to have no choice at all.
Anyway, this is in danger of getting political and I don't want to get dragged into a discussion on a topic of which I have little to no clue so I'll stop now.
Ha Ha. Political discussion is OK as long as it cival imo.
My issue with nation health care is that you take away individual rights from people. That is to either elect or not elect to pay for something. More personal control and choices is what I think we are about.
I guess the question is who would NOT pay for basic health care? I mean, I have health insurance though work to supplement the gov't program but if I am wheeled into a hospital, I know I'm going to get the same care as anyone else.
I love our health care system ok I may be slightly biased and we gave to wait 6 weeks for a operation but at least i know if I get I'll my hospitals will take care of me. I pay tax which I don't notice because it's the norm.
Again, that wasn't my point. I don't really care who pays for it. I want to know why it costs so much more in the last 5-10 years?? This isn't an "Obama thing." This has been happening for awhile now. What I usually hear is that those paying for health care are covering for people that don't have care or good coverage. Well, maybe we should all just drop our health care coverage if you can get care somehow anyway? Maybe we should all sort of go on strike with no health care? Mainly a joke, but I think you get my meaning. It can't continue like this. Even in a national health care system, those that work, pay taxes, etc. are covering those that don't. I just don't see any kind of return on the literally tens of thousands of dollars that Lynn, myself and the places we have worked for have sunk into paying for our health care in our working lives. I could say the same thing about auto insurance too. But don't get me started on that one too. LOL!
Definitely the same case here. I guess the thing here is that as long as you pay taxes you are paying for health care. There are still a group that don't pay taxes or on on social assistance that we do cover. Why is it more expensive? Who knows, we can speculate but we can't know for sure.
And another thing....
Here's the crux of the issue I think. My former boss had to have some heart surgery. Had to have a few stints put in. Relatively minor surgery in the overall scheme of things. Think he was in the hospital a couple of days. His total bill was somewhere around $100K! Um, that takes a lot to pay off from health care providers. I know costs of hospitals, doctors, nurses, equipment, medication all has become in some cases obscene. So, I know where these costs are coming from. But as long as these costs continue to rocket upwards we are basically screwed.
yeah, just for the tests I had done recently and some dental work, I am having to dip into retirement to pay for it. And I have insurance. It is absolutely crazy price wise!
Part of the increased cost equation is health care also can be attributed to the fact that we are an overweight nation and the result is an massive increase in weight related health issues such as diabetes, heart disease, increase cancer rates, ect. It's only been over the past 20 years or so where this problem has really come to the forefront. Americans are fat and unhealthy and require more doctor visits, hospital procedures, and expensive prescription medications. And to Joe's comment, when you have a population of almost 350 million, there will be a poor demographic that either can't afford health care or will actually choose to not have it and buy smartphones instead. No kidding, I know people who have no money, no insurance, but they sure as hell have a plasma TV. American's priorities are so out of whack it absurd. Then we have a large illegal immigrant population and when they show up in a hospital, they have to be treated. Hospitals foot the bill and our costs go up.
And although I understand the pooled/shared risk model of insurance, I can say it does burn my biscuit when i pay the same amount for coverage as someone who weighs 300lbs. and eats donuts all day.
Good points Bryan. Not too mention smoking, alcohol abuse, drug use and so on. As an aside, my former boss was a smoker but he did at least quit when he started having heart issues.
I was under the impression that if you were applying for private health insurance you did pay higer rates if you were in a higher risk category such as a smoker or with pre-existing conditions.
Quote from: billybob476 on September 09, 2010, 09:05:29 AM
I was under the impression that if you were applying for private health insurance you did pay higer rates if you were in a higher risk category such as a smoker or with pre-existing conditions.
Private, yes, group care, HMO model, no.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 09, 2010, 09:22:03 AM
Quote from: billybob476 on September 09, 2010, 09:05:29 AM
I was under the impression that if you were applying for private health insurance you did pay higer rates if you were in a higher risk category such as a smoker or with pre-existing conditions.
Private, yes, group care, HMO model, no.
Correct. In most cases you could go out and abuse yourself all you want and the cost is the same for super athlete's like Bryan. About they only thing they look at is your age.
Your costs for insurance are going up due to higher costs on the actual care you get. They ARE also going up due to Obama Care which can not be denied.
Your costs go to the point that the market can bare. This is the same for auto insurance. This is due to competition in the market.
I count myself extremely lucky, I am a municipal worker and pay zero dollars for full coverage for myself and my entire family. The city pays the whole bill. We have normal copays of course, for routine visits and medications etc., but I am one of the very lucky few that gets quality health care basically for free.
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on September 09, 2010, 12:18:12 PM
The city pays the whole bill.
Well, tax payers pay the bill and it's great when there are sufficient tax revenues to support a municipal workforce as well as benefits...until there aren't.
Co
Quote from: Bryancd on September 09, 2010, 12:36:52 PM
Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on September 09, 2010, 12:18:12 PM
The city pays the whole bill.
Well, tax payers pay the bill and it's great when there are sufficient tax revenues to support a municipal workforce as well as benefits...until there aren't.
Could not have said it better than that.
This is the basis for the socialized model our friends across the pond and in the Great White North use. They pay for their "fee" health care through VERY high rates of taxation. It's easy to say oh, it just comes out of taxes so I never see it but it's there. I would rather have lower taxes and freedom of choice. Or British friends should know American's don't take well to be told what to do. ;D
I think we worked that one out ;)
What I don't understand is everyone goes on about choice but I don't see one. It sounds like all get treated and those with money cover the costs. How is that a choice and why is it different to what we have?
I've always been in support of a socialized healthcare system ala Canada and Europe. I mean we pay taxes for unemployment and social security, why not add healthcare. Healthcare should available to all .. not just those who can afford it.
Quote from: Feathers on September 09, 2010, 02:08:24 PM
I think we worked that one out ;)
What I don't understand is everyone goes on about choice but I don't see one. It sounds like all get treated and those with money cover the costs. How is that a choice and why is it different to what we have?
Well we don't get treated the same. I have low cost insurance with a HUGE deductible. If anything goes wrong, I pay for the 1st $4000 out of my pocket. So, I'm basically gambling. If something major happens to me, then my insurance kicks in, 80 percent, I am responsible for the deductible and 20 percent of the rest of it. Now, If I want a procedure done by a great doctor who is a specialist, honestly, I can't afford that, so I have to settle for a clinic or sub standard place if I don't want to owe the rest of my life. My insurance won't accept some doctors, and won't approve of some medications, etc. So it's all so confusing.
This is why I am eating better, taking my diabetes meds and walking more, so that I don't have to rely on all of this stuff. ugh. Eventually if I keep at it I won't be insulin dependant anymore. (I hope)
I don't sound frustrated do I? ;)
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on September 09, 2010, 02:13:52 PM
I've always been in support of a socialized healthcare system ala Canada and Europe. I mean we pay taxes for unemployment and social security, why not add healthcare. Healthcare should available to all .. not just those who can afford it.
I am sure Kenny knows I disagree with him on this :) . Unemployment is temporary and social security is bankrupt and not going to be around for most of us. Unfortunately I don't think either one of those are opinion. Now on to my opinion.....
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get. The current bill forces everyone to have health care, so even if you don't want it you are going to be forced to pay for it.
Quote from: Blackride on September 09, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.
Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on September 09, 2010, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 09, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.
Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?
- Preventive care starts later in life. For example breast cancer exams start at 40 in America and 50 under socialized medicine.
- You will visist specialist less. Generalists will make more determiniations.
- Wait times to see a dr in the UK are much longer than in the US.
There are positives to it also:
- more after hours coverage
- More personal resonsiblity put on your health since you can't visit the dr as much
- Doctors paid per visit not treatment
- co-pays are cheaper for those that use them
I have to say living it Canada, it is nice to know that I don't have to worry about a bill if I have to go to the hospital or see the Doctor. I guess since I have always grown up with this system, I am used to it, and not sure if I could ever go to a system like in America. I sympathize with all the people struggling to afford health care, does seem like an unfortunate situation that basic coverage could be very costly. Tough issue for sure, as I can also see that the people who can afford good care, not wanting to give that up. I know at times here in Canada, people who need more care then what our basic coverage provides, might go to a private hospital. But that is usually for people who have an illness or disease, that requires a very specialized treatment, or highly experimental, and it is costly.
Keep in mind Jeff, that if you did live here, you would be subject to a lower tax structure and likely a higher wage, so the the additional cost is offset by additional income/lower taxes. Certainly health care needs to be provided to all Americans in some capacity. NO ONE is turned away at a hospital in this country if they don't have insurance. The classic model of private and public health care being available broke a long time ago for many of the reasons I posted previously to account for rising costs. My father was a doctor, a ear, nose, and throat surgeon. The advent of the modern health insurance system dramatically changed the quality of care in this country, in his opinion, for the worse. But it was inevitable. 350 million people and growing makes for a tough situation to manage.
Quote from: Geekyfanboy on September 09, 2010, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: Blackride on September 09, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
The real problem that socialized medicine has it it takes away choice and the great service we get.
Great service if you can afford it.. for us who can't we take what we can. And are you saying that socialized medicine give bad service?
Not so much bad service Kenny as less competent service resulting in even higher costs. The medical field used to attract the best and the brightest in this country. Men and women who spent almost 1/3 of their lives in school to learn a trade with a high compensation and prestige. Socialized medicine does not provide the same model.
I think quality of service is a valid concern. Despite the fact of the National Health Service, the concept of private medicine is still very much alive and kicking over here. The downside of access for all is having to 'wait your turn' - waiting lists for hospitals are a big political football.
The private options here, then, are not necessarily to get 'better' care but to jump the queue and get served quicker. The irony of this is that having paid all the taxes, you then pay again to get the treatment via a different route. I think the fact that it is perceivved as providing better facilities as well is more because it is funded by an insurance company and not the public purse. Government will NOT pay for a private room with plasma TV for everyone but insurance companies will and charge higher premiums as a result.
Whatever I say of public health over here, the system is still far from perfect.
I should also point out that I do have private cover through work. I haven't used it much but for what it covers, it covers in full (up to certain annual limits). There's no concept of my having to pay the first £XXX.
I'll agree that wait times for specialists can be long here and wait times for elective surgery can also be long. On a brighter note my uncle was able too see his doctor, then based on test results a cardiologist within the week and be in surgery yesterday for bypass surgery all within a very short time frame.
My uncle's company currently has the unionized staff on lockout and has suspended their health coverage. Despite this he had no worries about how to cover the cost of his open heart surgery done at one of the best hospitals in the country. I'll pay higher taxes for that.
Quote from: Feathers on September 10, 2010, 02:59:26 AM
I think quality of service is a valid concern. Despite the fact of the National Health Service, the concept of private medicine is still very much alive and kicking over here. The downside of access for all is having to 'wait your turn' - waiting lists for hospitals are a big political football.
The private options here, then, are not necessarily to get 'better' care but to jump the queue and get served quicker. The irony of this is that having paid all the taxes, you then pay again to get the treatment via a different route. I think the fact that it is perceivved as providing better facilities as well is more because it is funded by an insurance company and not the public purse. Government will NOT pay for a private room with plasma TV for everyone but insurance companies will and charge higher premiums as a result.
Whatever I say of public health over here, the system is still far from perfect.
I should also point out that I do have private cover through work. I haven't used it much but for what it covers, it covers in full (up to certain annual limits). There's no concept of my having to pay the first £XXX.
It's good to hear honest opinions from someone in the system. In America if you are for nationalized health all people do is say that's it's the best thing ever! There is very little objectivity to the debate imo.
As I say, for emergency and priority care, the system works very well but to pretend that it is perfect in all respects....no.
I'm going to diverge slightly from the topic. I think the real crux of the problem with many things these days is people are being squeezed from every direction for money. Everything costs more and more every day and there is no end in sight. Health care is really putting a burden on many - no matter where the money comes from. I long for the good old days when even one person working in a family could provide a pretty good lifestyle. I can only conclude that corporate greed is a big part of all of this.
One little side story. I was at a drugstore several years ago getting a prescription for something and a little old lady was in front of me in line. They brought her a small bottle of pills and rang her up and the price was something like $200. She didn't have enough money so they actually counted out a few pills for her and sold her what she could afford. I could hear her saying it was her heart medicine and she needed it. I felt terrible and just thought what is wrong with this picture?
One person can provide a good lifestyle for a family. The problem is that we Americans are so materialistic that you need multiple people to support that. I know multiple people in my area that only one person works in the family and provides a very nice life. Are they able to buy multiple flat screen TVs for the House, no , but they don't need that for happiness.
Increases in the costs of goods is not a phenomenon that is new to our generation. It's always been there.
Rico, Did you help her pay for the pills?
Taking people and corporations out of it for the moment, on the health side we also have the fact that medicine is getting more and more complicated (in terms of chemistry if nothing else).
We treat as routine things that used to be terminal and new conditions come under this umbrella all the time. But this only happens because the complexity of drugs etc increases and so do the associated costs.
When you then re-introduce corporate profit motives and high 'professional salaries' you can see where this is going.
(OK, I'm not a chemist so the talk of the costs of complex drugs is my understanding of matters. It may be incorrect...any chemists here? ;))
Quote from: Blackride on September 10, 2010, 07:42:10 AM
One person can provide a good lifestyle for a family. The problem is that we Americans are so materialistic that you need multiple people to support that. I know multiple people in my area that only one person works in the family and provides a very nice life. Are they able to buy multiple flat screen TVs for the House, no , but they don't need that for happiness.
Increases in the costs of goods is not a phenomenon that is new to our generation. It's always been there.
Rico, Did you help her pay for the pills?
Of course there are differences in the way people live and lifestyles but that doesn't account for huge increases these days. For example look at some basic economic charts on the cost of things like food, fuel, college, medical, etc. compared to say 30 years ago and adjust for inflation even. It doesn't work compared to the much smaller salary increases (or decreases). The simple way to put it is your dollar doesn't buy anywhere near what it used to buy. Actually the low income population is hurt by this even more.
With regards to the pills, no I didn't help her at the time. But I donate what I feel I can to several charities each year and also do odd jobs for a nearby condo association of older people. Well at least when I was back in Michigan. So I do what I can. How about you?
Quote from: Blackride on September 10, 2010, 07:42:10 AM
Rico, Did you help her pay for the pills?
How is that relevant?
Quote from: Rico on September 10, 2010, 08:50:27 AM
With regards to the pills, no I didn't help her at the time. But I donate what I feel I can to several charities each year and also do odd jobs for a nearby condo association of older people. Well at least when I was back in Michigan. SO I do what I can. How about you?
%10 of all my net income goes to church and it charities. Tithing.
I was not calling you out on that BTW :). My sincere apologies if u or anyone thought that.
Quote from: Bryancd on September 09, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
Keep in mind Jeff, that if you did live here, you would be subject to a lower tax structure and likely a higher wage, so the the additional cost is offset by additional income/lower taxes. Certainly health care needs to be provided to all Americans in some capacity. NO ONE is turned away at a hospital in this country if they don't have insurance. The classic model of private and public health care being available broke a long time ago for many of the reasons I posted previously to account for rising costs. My father was a doctor, a ear, nose, and throat surgeon. The advent of the modern health insurance system dramatically changed the quality of care in this country, in his opinion, for the worse. But it was inevitable. 350 million people and growing makes for a tough situation to manage.
Yes, I look at how much I am taxed, which I think is about a 3rd of my Salary, and I ask where does it go. So a lower tax rater does seem appealing to me at times :) , as with cost of living going up, it is deflating to see how little a person has after taxes. I guess for me, at least I know what ever happens to me, in my work situation, I will always have a certain level of health care provided to me, and I will not be faced with the possibility of deciding on seeking treatment or not and weighing that with an expense I might not be able to afford. Since I work in IT, I always feel a bit uncertain about the future, and the type of position I do, the trend seems to be going to more and more contract type positions. Those types of positions dont provide benefits and for the type of work I do not a huge increase in pay over what a regular employee makes. At some point, I will be faced with handling my own extended medical, dental, prescription costs, so it will at least be a bit of comfort to know I have at least the basic covered.
Quote from: Feathers on September 10, 2010, 08:36:54 AM
Taking people and corporations out of it for the moment, on the health side we also have the fact that medicine is getting more and more complicated (in terms of chemistry if nothing else).
We treat as routine things that used to be terminal and new conditions come under this umbrella all the time. But this only happens because the complexity of drugs etc increases and so do the associated costs.
When you then re-introduce corporate profit motives and high 'professional salaries' you can see where this is going.
(OK, I'm not a chemist so the talk of the costs of complex drugs is my understanding of matters. It may be incorrect...any chemists here? ;))
I agree Mike, sometimes I worry when business get involved in services, as rising costs, some time do not equate to better services, but more to administration and making certain profit margins.
Like Mike stated for the UK, our system in Canada is far from perfect as well, the wait times are long at times. I know last year, when the H1N1 vaccination issues came up, it was handled very poorly in the province I lived in. With people having to wait for very long time to get the vaccine, shortage of supply, preferential treatment, etc etc etc. When my Wife came to Canada, trying to find her a family Doctor was a challenge, as no one was taking new patients, and she has one now, but would still like to find a Doctor that speaks Chinese. A friend of mine a few years back, had a scary incident, where he had a Motorcycle accident, and nearly lost his leg due to how he was diagnosed, and only him insisting that he felt something was wrong, he was able to get someone else to have a look, and fortunately they admitted him and did not send him home. My Dad required surgery last year for Cancer, and they kept on pushing his date back, that was very frustrating and concerning to the family. Fortunately the Surgery went well, and he is healthy now.
I guess at times Healthcare is what it is, and there is really no perfect solution. It does seem like regardless which country or system you are under, the more you can afford, the better care you will get.