Our Next President

Started by Geekyfanboy, January 21, 2008, 12:35:55 PM

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X

Quote from: Bryancd on January 22, 2008, 09:35:23 AM
For sure, X, it's just that we can't vote for Bush or Bill Clinton, so a review of those economic policies, success and failures, isn't as germane to the original topic.

If Hill is basing part of her record on the time that her husband was president, then those successes and failures seem to go hand in hand with her canidacy.

As for Bush, I only said something nice about him so I wouldn't have to say something mean about Romney.

Bryancd


Jen

#62
Quote from: Just X on January 22, 2008, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: Jen on January 22, 2008, 04:33:54 AMI can't believe I'm arguing for Hillary. Esh... I need to just stop. Buuuuut.... It's not just the polls. There's something called caucuses and primaries going on right now, it involves voting.

While I would agree that Hill seems to be winning the states, she's not winning as many delegates as Obama is. She's capturing more population centers and thus higher votes, but he's taking home more counties and delegates than she is right now.

I'm not saying she's on top. King said the country wouldn't accept a woman as president. My point was simply that there are people who are voting for her... otherwise she would drop out. ::subliminal message:: Hilary drop out, you're going to lose. ::subliminal message::
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KingIsaacLinksr

A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
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Poodyglitz

#64
I would say Colin Powell, but he's not running, nor is he a politician (drats!). I'm also wishing that Al Gore had done the things he's done after the election before he ran (An Inconvenient Truth, starting Current TV, etc). I would have been more motivated to vote.

Generally, I have been so disappointed with politics in this country that I've felt that those who could have been president were not given a chance. I actually have a problem with our two party system. They bring to mind the Big 3 auto makers who railroaded Preston Tucker, who tried to introduce safety features to automobiles back in the 40's.

Quote from: Just X on January 21, 2008, 01:51:13 PM

I don't like Clinton either because I can't trust her for some reason.

McCain and Obama are the two that I like the most.

I don't trust Clinton either. It crystallized when she became a New York senator. It was obvious she was positioning herself for a presidential run (while denying it strenuously). Obama, while he may not have the experience of the others, has also not been tainted by the system. I'm not so concerned about foreign policy as there will be enough domestic mess to clean up. I believe, however, that Obama has the presidential gravitas to handle himself in an international forum.

Obama also hearkens back to earlier figures (such as Kennedy and MLK), with a confident bearing and positive message. I don't get a sense that he's telling me everything I want to hear. Obama comes off as the genuine article. I particularly like the message that it is not a Republican America, nor a Democrat America -- it is simply the United States of America. You should check out his MLK Day speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf0x_TpDris

I appreciate the fact that he could have gone the ambitious capitalist route, but decided to do things in his career to help people.

My only fear is that if he has a running mate who could make a competent replacement for him, that he'd easily be assassinated. I base this on the history of this country.

There was a time when I thought I was weighted more toward Republican sensibilities because of certain issues. Being African American, my sympathies lie with some of the Democratic sensibility. When I really look at myself, I'm more of a Centrist. Both sides have their positive and negative aspects. I tend to look at the individual rather than the party (my experiences with racism and being treated poorly by my own people -- as well as the message of Star Trek -- have guided that).

However, I would prefer to have a valid third and fourth party alternative.


Poodyglitz

Quote from: Jobydrone4of20 on January 22, 2008, 05:52:25 AM
I'd love to see Hillary and Obama on the same ticket, with Obama as Hillary's VP.  Seems to me that would be an automatic win for the Democrats.  I was a big fan of Bill Clinton and felt that during his two terms our country seemed to be doing better than I can ever remember fiscally, socially, and politically.  I'd love a return to that kind of political environment again. 

I believe that people have been so burned by the Bush presidency that it's going to be an automatic Democratic win. Most likely what will happen is that either Obama or Clinton will get the nomination and Edwards will be invited to be the running mate.

It's just a feeling, an opinion. Not based on anything practically valid.

KingIsaacLinksr

No offense to you Darmok or anyone who supports Barack...but this video just stopped me from considering him a potential candidate.  Why? might you ask.  Because he is playing politics in church.  Although I consider our current "separation of church and state "rule"" overused and abused, I do NOT like to be preached to about politics when I listen to worship or go to worship.  I'm sorry, but I'm there to listen to the Bible, not a candidate's views of politics. 

Another way to view it is, do you like listening to a sermon about how we should all be stopping the drilling of oil/you should support taxes/anything political?  I do not like it when pastors try to talk about politics.  Its all fine and dandy when they aren't on the podium as they have their opinion, but talking about it in front of the church-goers, in my honest opinion, is......not right.  Yes, I acknowledge that Religion and Politics mix, but in this case, I cannot stand for it. 

Now, one thing before I stop, I accept your opinions.  I don't mean to shut anyone down ever.  I'm just stating my opinion.  And I accept that I might have misinterpreted this video.

King
A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
Let's Play: Videogames YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/kingisaaclinksr

X

Quote from: Kinglinksr on January 27, 2008, 10:20:17 PM
No offense to you Darmok or anyone who supports Barack...but this video just stopped me from considering him a potential candidate.  Why? might you ask.  Because he is playing politics in church.  Although I consider our current "separation of church and state "rule"" overused and abused, I do NOT like to be preached to about politics when I listen to worship or go to worship.  I'm sorry, but I'm there to listen to the Bible, not a candidate's views of politics. 

Another way to view it is, do you like listening to a sermon about how we should all be stopping the drilling of oil/you should support taxes/anything political?  I do not like it when pastors try to talk about politics.  Its all fine and dandy when they aren't on the podium as they have their opinion, but talking about it in front of the church-goers, in my honest opinion, is......not right.  Yes, I acknowledge that Religion and Politics mix, but in this case, I cannot stand for it. 

Now, one thing before I stop, I accept your opinions.  I don't mean to shut anyone down ever.  I'm just stating my opinion.  And I accept that I might have misinterpreted this video.

King

I think you are taking this very out of context. He went to a church and talked. He's not the first or last canidate to do that. Every person running for any office needs to hear what the people say.

Going to church or having faith does not conflict with the seperation of church and state. It's not even what it means. The seperation means that we won't let the church run the country, not that all of our elected officials need to be godless pagens.

This wasn't an advertisement. It was something some captured while he was talking at a church, but I don't think that's the point.

I don't think you need a reason to not vote for him. IF you are not going to vote for him or Hillary, that's fine. I don't need a reason as to why you're not voting Democrat, but if it wasn't this video, it was the picture before it.

This is only my opinion, but it seems as if you had already made up your mind about not voting for him and now are looking for reasons to justify that choice when you don't need to. When you posted the picture you said it made you not consider him, then you see the video and that makes you not consider him.

Face it, you never considered him and I think it's safe to say that everyone here is cool with that. We don't need you to explain why you made your choice.

Poodyglitz

#68
Quote from: Kinglinksr on January 27, 2008, 10:20:17 PM
No offense to you Darmok or anyone who supports Barack...but this video just stopped me from considering him a potential candidate.  Why? might you ask.  Because he is playing politics in church.

I understand where you're coming from. The thing to take into consideration here is the history of the American Black Church. In this country, there are essentially two Christian churches, the White Church and the Black Church. Because of the oppressive atmosphere of slavery, the Black Church was (in addition to being a place for spiritual nourishment) a place where community issues were secretly discussed. Remember, slaves were not really allowed to meet and organize. Eventually, it evolved to adjust to the needs of the free African American community. This is where the affairs of the community have been dealt with, which is how the Civil Rights Movement came about. Preachers like Dr. King had to wear two hats. One of spiritual leader, proclaiming the Gospel of Christ. The other of Community Leader, dealing with the social/political issues of a disenfranchised people. For better or worse, this is what has come to be.

Obama's speech, in this context, uses the style of rhetoric that this audience is accustomed to. Remember also, that this is also a sort of homage to Dr. King as well as Obama asserting his Blackness -- a sort of reassurance. It is not meant to preach a political gospel, but to meet this demographic where it lives. I do not see him as a preacher, but a leader demonstrating his familiarity with spiritual concepts. He's relating. In the Black community, there is a thick wall of mistrust against "The White Establishment". This is a significant and necessary step to build that trust. As JustX has stated, he's not the first political candidate to speak at a church.

I also believe that church is not the place for political discussion and campaigning, but have to be understanding of this particular culture. However, I do appreciate the germ of spiritual truth contained within the speech. It lets me know that there's an authenticity to Obama's faith. Perhaps if slave masters had treated slaves as brothers when introducing Christianity, there would be a truly unified Church.

KingIsaacLinksr

#69
I'll be honest here, I really do not know who I'm going to vote for.  Neither side shows good enough people and I think the backstabbing that has started/going to happen, is just going to put me off even more.  I didn't like how the election of 04 went with Kerry and Bush continually trying to burn each other on the "stake" all the time and it seems that this trend is going to happen again.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I'm not "God" I'm afraid.  Also, it seems that they are so insecure (except for some) with themselves that they have to lash out at someone else.  I really wish this sort of trend didn't happen, but as I have to remind myself, its politics. 

And you both bring up a good point.  I guess I'm just too darn young to understand everything at once.  (Darn youth!!! lol)  ;) ;)  Hopefully I'm not "corrupted" by hopelessness later on.  ;)

King
A Paladin Without A Crusade Blog... www.kingisaaclinksr.wordpress.com
My Review of Treks In Sci-Fi Podcast: http://wp.me/pQq2J-zs
Let's Play: Videogames YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/kingisaaclinksr

Poodyglitz

Kingster,

I felt the same way last election. Don't think it's a youth thing. My take is that it's a lack of solid choices thing. The game of politics has become more vicious and vacuous. It has become about offense/defense and not about issues. In the recent and current political climate, perhaps those who really could make a difference have found it too dirty and distracting to deal with. What exacerbates things is the exclusion of candidates outside of the DemoPublican Party -- remember Ralph Nader? This election seems more compelling to me. Not so much that there's a Black and Female candidate, but that one of them hearkens back to the days of more stately politicians (you had to have been there, I guess). Also, coming out of the current administration, making the right choice is critical.

Ktrek

I really like Obama the more I hear him. He makes a lot of sense. One problem I do have with him though is the black racism his so-called pastor spouts off. If Obama wants "unity" and an America where color does not exist as an issue then why has he supported this all black church for 20 years?

As a Christian there are many social issue Obama represents that I believe do need addressing and it is high time for a change. I'm not yet convinced he is the man for President but as I have said before if the choice is Hillary or Obama I would rather see him than her. If anyone wants to hear a good speech by Obama they should listen to his South Carolina victory speech.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Poodyglitz

Quote from: Ktrek on January 28, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
I really like Obama the more I hear him. He makes a lot of sense. One problem I do have with him though is the black racism his so-called pastor spouts off. If Obama wants "unity" and an America where color does not exist as an issue then why has he supported this all black church for 20 years?

That was Martin Luther King's church that he was speaking at. I don't believe that acknowledging it makes him exclusively Afrocentric. As far as the pastor is concerned, he's speaking from a sense of pride. As a people, we have had so few decent role models that each good one give us a sense of hope and pride for ourselves. It's like prisoners celebrating someone who finally gets released (admittedly a crude metaphor, but I hope you get the gist).

Ktrek

I realize that the video was from Dr. King's church. That's not what I was making reference to at all. I was referring to Rev. Jeremiah Wright the pastor of Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago. This so-called pastor is known for his anti-white rhetoric and I think he is dangerous and I'd hate to think that he could continue in a new role as spiritual advisor of the President. I like Obama I just don't think I care for those he surrounds himself with.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Poodyglitz